The economy.

Of course there have always been selfish “entitled” individuals.

It happens in every single generation.

The difference though was when Thatcher introduced the cult if the individual.

So if you look at how the Tory party changed it went from the traditional one nation Tory which had a strong ethic of paternalistic responsibility, (as much as I abhor it) to one who rejected all responsibility by the individual for her fellow citizens.

We have seen this grow to the extent that we now have a hard right Tory party who feels no responsibility for the less fortunate unless it somehow affects themselves for example the rise in crime etc

That is why people seem so selfish now.

I'm not sure that it's really worth arguing about.

IMO there are selfish people in every generation and every generation tends to think that the generation after them is less 'worthy' than their own.

Crossed posts, Ww2 (but yours is better than mine )

Day6 Tue 30-Jul-19 18:24:05 That is such a narrow view and it worries me. If you could think in terms of a family where one member needs help to improve their lot and the rest of the family provide that help. Down the line the weaker member improves their life and is able to help the rest of the family. Think of Poland. The EU has helped them, the UK gave employment to some of them but now their economy has improved and we can all sell more to them. Many of those who worked hard in the UK and sent money home have gone back because their economy has improved and the £ is so low it is no longer worthwhile to send money home. We all benefit from their increased buying power. Short term headline thinking is the cause of this situation and anyone who believes BJ's spouting about giving so much money away without it costing us dear is living on a cloud.

May family and friends in France, Portugal, Spain and Holland are far from envious, they are scared for us all and one has taken out citizenship to protect themselves.

It seems to me that the ones with their head in the sand who can't accept the facts are those who want to leave. I reiterate, the EU is far from perfect but it is better to be in than try to go it alone.

Someone suggested we look at the US and Asian markets for our future. I think that takes no account of the environment or the cost of sending/buying from so far away.

We are 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' and 'cutting off our noses to spite our faces'.

So, returning to the title of the thread ‘The economy’ this is heartening news regarding the falling pound:

From an economic editor in the Telegraph today:

There is no telltale flight from UK sovereign bonds. Borrowing costs have been falling over recent days. Yields on 10-year gilts dropped to an all-time low of 0.64pc yesterday.

The FTSE 100 index of bigger UK companies – with high exposure to dollar earnings – has been buoyant as investors mechanically treat the London stock market as an exchange-rate hedge. Even the FTSE small cap index has eked out a slight rise.

And further on in the article he states:

What is striking is the contagion effect elsewhere in European markets. Ireland’s ISEQ index of equities has dropped 3pc this week and has decoupled from the rest of Europe. Irish 10-year yields have jumped almost 10 basis points. “I can’t help noticing that the Irish spread over German bunds has been widening since April,” said Simon Derrick from BNY Mellon.

Yields on two-year Swiss bonds – the ultimate safe haven – plummeted 105 basis points yesterday. This is a hint of broader systemic worry. The Swiss franc has been grinding higher against the euro despite heroic efforts by the Swiss National Bank to hold it down.

Not just the Brexiting U.K. then. So let’s not blame it on that and panic!

'Entitlement' yes it has got worse and the reason is that governments have enabled it. There are so many regulations to protect us from ourselves that people no longer have to think for themselves in so many ways. Now when things go wrong it is always someone else's fault. There was a man on the radio a couple of days ago who was moaning that when he left uni he couldn't get the job he wanted. Of course it was societies fault not his for not having the right social skills. Not so long ago someone wrote to our local paper complaining they had been fined for not paying the car parking charge when they went to the theatre. They thought it should be free. There are so many instances when people should take responsibility but don't.

Urmstongran, this sentence made me laugh - as that word is very much what we call 'a false friend' - and I can assure you you don't seem to be, at all ...

'just being sensible'

Of course, I expect you did not have elderly parents in Malaga that needed your support. And of course- the Euro and the Swiss Francs are certainly different entities and react very differently to a crisis. 'Sensible' don't think so- you hve said yourself you just don't care. Your prerogative, of course.

WWM2 I agree with you about Thatcher and the cult of the individual. during the early part of this century I worked with a woman who referred to herself as one of Thatcher's children. She and her OH bought their council house which they later sold and moved out to Suffolk, buying themselves a nice executive home on a new estate. There was serious flooding in the West Country which resulted in many people being made homeless, in some instances for several months. The government made available relief funds. This woman objected strongly to this as, in her view, people should stand on their own two feet.

Urmston That is just one viewpoint. Here is another: qz.com/1547421/brexiteers-now-say-a-crashing-pound-after-brexit-might-not-be-such-a-bad-thing/

This is just part of it: Could a crashing pound be a good thing? It depends who you ask. If you’re a foreign billionaire looking to load up on London property, it’s definitely good news. Ditto if you are a tourist coming from abroad. But these groups aside, who is a weak pound good for?

Goods exporters are the most obvious beneficiaries, as cited by Davis—a weak pound makes British products more competitive in foreign markets. But the UK is not a manufacturing-driven, export-based economy: it runs a big trade deficit. What’s more, some 50% of UK exports incorporate imported components, which could undo the cost benefits that come with pricing goods in pounds.

For most ordinary Brits, it’s bad news. The UK brings in around a quarter of its food from the EU (and exports about half as much as it ships in). These, along with many other imported goods, will get significantly more expensive if the pound crashes—even before you factor in trade tariffs that the UK could try to cut to help soften the blow. People will be able to buy fewer things for their money, meaning a fall in spending—and growth—more generally.

The UK’s large financial services sector is also likely to suffer, as explained by economist Duncan Connors:

Financial services contributed 14.5% towards British GDP in 2014, as opposed to 11% for manufacturing and 7% for construction. Plus, finance is part of an overall service sector that forms 80% of UK GDP. The country’s finance industry is likely to suffer because it is built on foreign investment that puts its faith in a strong pound.

Property prices, especially in and around London, would probably come under pressure as the financial sector shrinks. If the economy gets bad enough, foreign buyers may choose to stay away, too, removing another support to the UK’s gravity-defying property prices. That might sound good to people long priced out of homes by bankers and oligarchs, but all the other negative effects of a sudden depreciation of the pound would probably be even worse.

Oh jura2 of course my being ‘sensible’ about the exchange rate against the euro and my circumstances was all about me!

It was in direct response to your message jura2 Tue 30-Jul-19 21:13:15

'The exchange rate here on the Costa del Sol is still at €1.10'

do you live there Urmstongran?

It keeps falling, btw.

That post was about me.
Not about your elderly parents or the Swiss currency you use.

Jeez.

Some good news about the exchange rate.

Apparently there is a positive impact on the stock market today because so many of our biggest companies earn most of their income overseas. This is good news for people saving into pension funds.

Oh crystal, you have to 'believe' dear, just 'believe'

Great cartoon of Johnson crashing into the wall at Kingscross. The only great thing about Brexit- it has revived the best in British Humour and political cartoons - went through some of the best with my nephew last night- who is a cartoonist for the Swiss equivalent of Private Eye (he is part British, part French and part Portuguese as well as Swiss).

Whitewave you post at 9.49 is spot on. Its terribly sad. Any sense of collective responsibility gone and its all about Me Me Me.

No Urmston the FTSE is down 66 points today! I don't know where these quotes come from but it is very easy to check for yourself, I just did. Perhaps your would like to reply to my post of 12.27? I always think facts are more important than sound bites.

Just seen this on Twitter "On the bright side, the pound sterling is not the worst performing currency in the world today. That accolade goes to the Madagascan Ariary. The pound, on the other hand, is only the second-worst performing currency in the entire world" If true it says it all!

Nonnie
You obviously don't have a problem with the eu doing a trade deal with South America, then.
I see that Macron isn't very happy with the deal.

Sorry petra how do you work out what I think about any trade deal? You have amazing powers of extrapolation which are way beyond me. However, I would be very interested in your response to what I have actually posted.

It's the years of dithering that is causing this fall, investors just want to know what the situation is and they will invest. Currently, we are in a no man's land, neither in nor out and nobody can work with that.

It's not the dithering. It's the almost certainty that we are actually going to leave the EU which is causing the caution about investing in the UK. Meanwhile, the money brokers love it and are making a killing.

Urmston that is your opinion which does not seem to be shared by economists. Do you read all the posts or are you ignoring the ones you have no answer to?

By the way, how does a country do a deal with South America? South America has a number of different countries.

PANIC over the rise of the gig economy, zero-hours contracts and insecure work is based on a misunderstanding, according to the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD).

Rather than becoming less secure, the world of work has become more stable, despite the rising profile of flexible online jobs and the use of gig workers in industries such as minicab driving and takeaway delivery.

The professional body’s study of the job market found that the number of people in “atypical” work has risen, but largely because the overall number of people in work has hit record highs.

A sudden take-off for Thomas Cook shares pushed the travel group to the top of All-Share risers, hitting highs of 40pc up in midday trading yesterday.

Pest control firm Rentokil has beaten analysts’ expectations after posting a 4.2pc rise in revenue and an 11.6pc increase in operating profit to £152.1m.

Andy Ransom, chief executive, said it did “very well” in its first six months, driven by “further execution of high quality acquisitions”.

Deliveroo has acquired a Scottish software development company, Cultivate, and plans to treble the size of the firm’s Edinburgh office.

The food delivery service has previously worked with the firm on projects including building its payments system.