The economy.

The collapse of the EU sounds like wishful thinking from Project Fear ;-)

Whereas, the failure of the UK when it leaves the EU seems to be the desire of most Remainers. They cling to the EU and their grievances even though they lost the referendum and now predict dire times without Brussels holding our hand.

Leavers have read enough to appreciate the EU is very flawed, and not much appreciated across Europe. I see it as a rescue mission for the UK, as do others. Look at local elections in member states and the discontent of the people across the continent.. There are genuine concerns that we will be involved in an undemocratic European federation before long for which we will continue to pay billions every year but have very little, if any, say.

We will continue to trade with the EU, and they will want British goods and services. We stand or fall by our own efforts. We won't be dragged down by the creaking EU, and we will also be billions better off every single year. We will be able to finance the natural adjustments which have to be made and any period of transition once we leave.

It's a much healthier situation.

Well, Day6, all of your post sounds like wishful thinking, too. It remains to be seen which is right, Leavers or Remainers. My money is on the latter, of course.

Day6 I don't know if all you say is true or propaganda but none of it is the point. We all know the EU is far from perfect but the UK will not become perfect by leaving. Better to stick with what we know and try to improve it than leave and beg people to do deals with us.

This is what is going to happen to us, if you are happy about it then I think you and deluding yourself. www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/19/what-a-no-deal-brexit-could-mean-for-the-uk-in-five-charts

Carney is only the governor of the Bank of England so I expect leavers on here have far more knowledge of the economy

Well of course you have faith in Remainer Canadian Carney. It was very embarrassing that he got all of his gloomy predictions very wrong after the referendum. Things he predicted as part of Project Fear did not come to pass.

Now he is hedging his bets again, as Urmstongranpointed out. What are the odds he is giving? One in three chances of getting it right?

It's laughable.

Well I know a fair few farmers who are quite pleased about Brexit actually. But anecdotal evidence is pointless.

However, there was an article written in The Guardian last year. Excellent piece. I know a lot you like The Guardian.

George Monbiot wrote it. A Remainer. This is the headline if you wish to read.

""The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system""

The fact is nobody knows much about anything. Especially people on forums. They just know how to argue and fight for their corner. Which is fine. But we only know what we read. And for logical reasons you look for evidence and articles which have similar opinions to yourselves.

Also, for every expert's opinion, you will always find another expert totally contradicting it.

the UK will not become perfect by leaving.

Of course it won't, Nonnie. No one imagines it will.

Please tell me of a place which is just perfect? We will continue to have our problems but they won't be compounded by us having to agree or go along with the needs and desires of 27 very different countries and the Brussels ring-master. Many of them are eastern European countries without large economies who take rather than contribute to the budget. Yet we are duty bound to consider their needs as well as the needs of Germany, Italy, Greece, Sweden, etc, etc, etc.

We will determine in future where our foreign aid budget is spent and (with funds no longer paid to the EU), the ways in which we will improve our islands and the life of the people living here. We will also continue to welcome people from all over the world who will contribute to our economy and society. We will continue to trade with European countries.

It sounds like a better, more manageable and agreeable deal to me.

And millions of others who voted to leave the EU.

Day6

Farmers for Britain do not represent farmers, the National Farmers Union do that and they are solidly against Brexit for a whole host of reasons. The CAP is not universal across all 27 countries, each nation has a considerable degree of flexibility and we see this in the UK. England, Wales, Scotland and NI have their own variations. The indication so far is that payments to farmers is going the halve when a national scheme is introduced, but there is yet no commitment to anything.

Although farmers don’t like all the CAP regulations over the years most have benefited by membership, the exception being intensive Pig and Poultry industries. One complaint amongst farmers is the arbitrary withdraw of many chemicals by EU regulation, this makes life more difficult for producers.

There are 2 big problem sectors, Beef and Sheep, there is a 40% tariff on produce from outside the EU, without that you are going to be eating meat from Argentina, Australia, USA, Brazil and lots of other countries. That is going to be produced to entirely different welfare, environmental and hygiene standards, so you will be getting hormone treated Beef raised in feedlots numbering 10000 plus and traveling about 7000 food miles.
Your choice.

Sorry Day6 I've already explained why helping out poorer countries is in our interest so don't intend to do so again.

My point is that we should not decide by judging what is wrong with the EU, or blaming them because they won't give us what we want. We should simply be looking at the implications of leaving without a deal or staying. Only then can we work out what is best for the UK.

It is so easy to call M Carney a 'Remainer' as if that damns him but he will have thought it all through and calculated that remaining is better for the country. Remainer is used in a derogatory way as if those who want to remain are automatically wrong! An expert is an expert whether they wish to stay or go and their opinion is valuable.

I see the posters on the roadside and they seem ambiguous to me I’ve no idea who put them up maybe “ Farmers for Britain”.

day6 our foreign aid budget has always been entirely within our remit, the EU has never had influence.

The EU has just done a deal with the South American Countries, (Sorry I cannot recall the name they call themselves) to import beef and other goods into the EU.

The farmers I know voted Remain. There might be a few farmers who were persuaded against their better interests to vote Leave, but quite a few of these have changed their minds.

The person whose opinion we should respect is NFU President (a farmer elected by the members of the NFU) who has described the effect of a potential no-deal brexit on the agricultural industry as "catastrophic"

twitter.com/channel4news/status/1097841785173393409?lang=en

Farmers for Britain was started by George Eustace of DEFRA in 2016 vowing that farm payments would be at least equivalent to present rates maybe more. We now know that is not true, in addition the name is now being used by Brexiteers to give the impression that most farmers back leave this is not true.
It is just a government propaganda arm, one of many I suspect

Not sure that the NFU is respected by all farmers, varian. They take a whole lot of cash and give little back. There's another article in The Guardian.

Well Davidhs, it appears from this forum that most farmers back Remain. So many opinions!

The NFU represents most farmers, certainly the intelligent, responsible ones. There might be a small number of farmers who are represented by the "brexit party.

No sector of society was completely immune from the brainwashing that we were all subjected to by the right wing media for many years.

I live in a rural area.

I have never met a stupid farmer and I have never met a farmer who voted leave.

Also Davidhs, the EU are close to securing a deal with South American countries to do exactly what you're concerned we'd do with a No Deal Brexit. Farmers across the EU aren't happy obviously.

Of course it's our choice if we choose to buy it. But it looks like it will be over here, Brexit or No Brexit.

I'm talking about articles in The Guardian. varian. Give them a read! It's certainly not right wing press.

To suggest that only stupid people voted to Leave just invalidates your point.

There's no need to try to prove your superior intellect. You might be wrong at times.

Yes the EU does deals with all sorts of countries - for limited amounts of all sorts of products including food, it’s done on a reciprocal basis we take a quantity of their Beef in return for for a quantity of our Machinery.
That’s how trade deals work, they are not an open door.

Exactly, Davidhs. So there's no need for people to get upset about getting meat from the Americas. Because we'll be getting it no matter what.

Granygravy
It's the Mercosur deal. Macron is spitting nails on this.
The Greens in the eu parliament are not best pleased as Brazil has ramped up deforestation in the Amazon forest.
Ireland will not have a veto on this deal.
So much for the eu's green credentials.

We might not get anything from the USA if the Good Friday Agreement is endangerd by brexit.

"We'll block trade deal if Brexit imperils open Irish border, say US politicians"

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

Petra thank you, I had read that Macron was not happy, more "gilet jeunes" activity on the horizon (not that they have stopped)

In event of No Deal there will be no border because nobody wants it north or south and NI will be open to the EU.
So any regulation will have to be at Irish Sea ports - to control migration and other imports.

It’s a price that will have to be paid.