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Guns in America

(44 Posts)
varian Mon 05-Aug-19 18:20:08

So far this year the average number of mass shootings in the USA has exceeded one per day.

At least 31 have been killed in US weekend mass shootings

edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-paso-dayton-shootings-august-2019/index.html

America's gun culture in charts

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41488081

varian Tue 06-Aug-19 12:33:29

"The politics of American gun violence follow a predictable pattern in most cases: outraged calls for action from the left, somber gestures of sympathy from the right, a subdued presidential statement delivered from a prepared text — and then, in a matter of days or even hours, a national turning of the page to other matters.

But after a white supremacist gunman massacred 22 people in El Paso, the political world hurtled on Monday toward a more expansive, and potentially more turbulent, confrontation over racist extremism. Though the gun lobby was again on the defensive, it was not alone; so were social media companies and websites like 8chan that have become hives for toxic fantasies and violent ideas that have increasingly leaked into real life, with fatal consequences.

Perhaps most of all, President Trump faced intense new criticism and scrutiny for the plain echoes of his own rhetoric in the El Paso gunman’s anti-immigrant manifesto."

www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/us/politics/trump-guns-white-supremacy.html

Anja Tue 06-Aug-19 13:12:04

Well varian it appears GNetters not really interested that the moronic megalomaniac currently inhabiting the White House has had his evil rhetoric acted upon and so many have lost their lives...entirely attributable to Trump.

Of course he will not accept responsibility and is furiously backpedaling. White supremest trash that he is 🤬🤬🤬

SueDonim Tue 06-Aug-19 13:47:19

It's not that people aren't concerned about gun violence in the US. I certainly am, as my son and his family live in America. I think it's simply that people have run out of things to say about it. Nothing changes, no matter how many terrible events occur. sad

Opal Tue 06-Aug-19 14:08:08

If the massacre of innocents at Sandy Hook a few years ago was not heartbreaking and shocking enough to change the mindset of Americans regarding gun ownership, then nothing will. Their only hope is if their younger generation takes up the challenge. Sadly, I fear the gun lobby is too powerful, as are the arms manufacturers.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 06-Aug-19 14:08:58

SueDonim, totally agree with your post.

Trump is not to blame for the mass shootings, they happened under Obama and other presidents also.

The NRA is a very powerful and wealthy organisation with politicians from both sides in their pay/under their influence.

No President so far has had the appetite to fight the NRA, maybe one day it will happen.

Until then people will continue to be murdered daily, vigils will be held, people will protest but there will be no change.

JenniferEccles Tue 06-Aug-19 14:10:29

Nothing will change as long as there is strong support from Americans to have guns, and there IS strong support.

No President is going to go against the wishes of the majority is he?

jura2 Tue 06-Aug-19 14:18:51

A friend from California shared this today, and I agree 100%

'“We have a gun problem and a bullshit problem in the United States. Let me start by saying I am a gun owner. I have been since I was 6. I’ve had jobs that required me to carry a weapon. I’ve been shot at more than once. I’ve disarmed people who were trying to kill me. This isn’t coming from someone who doesn’t understand guns. It’s precisely because I do understand them that I’m going to call out the bullshit that stops us from having the reforms to gun laws that we needed years ago. If you want to debate any of the points below, I have no problem. These are simple facts.

1) I need an assault rifle for home defense. No, you don’t. A short barreled shotgun is the best tool for home defense. And that only counts if you’re insanely proficient with it and you get incredibly lucky. The likelihood you will get the chance to use it is next to zero. If you do, you’re very likely to kill a member of your family accidentally. In a REAL altercation, you don’t get to choose your field of fire. It happens incredibly fast, usually in the dark. If you’re popping off with a rifle, you are going to hit things you don’t intend to. Guns are tools. Period. Assault Rifles are intended to be used on a battlefield. Battlefield tactics don’t work in your house. It’s a bullshit argument.

2) I need to protect myself from a tyrannical Government... Holy Shit that’s stupid. That idea was from a time when the state of war was much more level. It isn’t now. At all. If an armored transport shows up on your front lawn with a 50 cal on the roof, you and your AK are fucking toast. Soldiers train, and their weapons are an extension of their body. You will instantly lose. And before you bring up guerrilla fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq... you need a reality check. Those people were born in a country that was at war, on their soil, for their entire lives. You don’t compare to that on your best day. And they die in FAR greater numbers than they kill.

3) Gun registration, background checks, etc are a slippery slope to confiscation. Bullshit. We register cars. We have to prove proficiency to operate them. We are required to have insurance in the event we cause damage with them. It’s been that way for decades, and no one is “coming to take your car”. Making sure people have the barest minimum of responsibility doesn’t lead to loss. Fear of loss leads to fundraising and bullshit. It’s not rational.

4) My gun is a right that can’t be modified. Again, utter bullshit. You can’t own a howitzer unless the barrel is full of concrete. You can’t own a cannon manufactured in the last century. You can’t own a fully automatic weapon without a FFL. That’s why those things are rarely used in crimes. And all of that is based on an amendment to our constitution that can be changed if we as a country see fit to do so. We have changed amendments before and we will again. If you don’t understand that you need a history lesson and a dictionary.

Creating common sense laws that put speed bumps in the way of lunatics helps. Every time. Automobile licenses, speed limits, etc don’t end accidents, but they make them less frequent and less deadly. It’s a proven concept. The time for bullshit excuses is over. It’s time to step up and take responsibility. Fuck this stupidity.”
~ Leonidas Christian Mixon'

but he is having a hard time of it on FB because of it.

varian Tue 06-Aug-19 14:39:51

Most Americans want tougher gun laws but have little confidence their lawmakers will take action, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll done in February 2019.

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-florida-shooting-anniversary-poll/americans-support-gun-control-but-doubt-lawmakers-will-act-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUKKCN1PX1DC

The majority in favour of better gun control has been steadily rising and is likely to do so again after the obscene number of mass shootings since then.

However the US lawmakers seem cowed by the power of the National Rifle Association who donate huge sums to the Republican Party.

There are more than 120 guns for every 100 people in the USA. (I think the number in the UK is about 6 guns for every 100 people)

SueDonim Tue 06-Aug-19 14:48:20

That's very powerful, Jura2 thank you.

I do think that whilst Trump hasn't pulled a trigger himself, he has given oxygen to white supremacists and made them think they are at liberty to take lives in order to shape the world as they see fit.

Alexa Tue 06-Aug-19 14:51:38

Switzerland permits gun ownership but hasn't a comparable problem.

rosecarmel Tue 06-Aug-19 15:48:22

Republicans are now pushing to address mental health issues and remove "guns" from those with mental health issues but don't know how they will go about addressing the constitutional right to carry arms-

Anja Tue 06-Aug-19 18:19:20

This is not simply a ‘gun’ issue. This is about inciting to hatred and murder. Had this idiot set about the shoppers with, as an example, a machete and killed less people what would that say?

Seems like fucking Trump has managed to deflect the issue onto guns again. This is about hatred. His instigation. The weapon barely matters except inasmuch as you can do more damage with a gun.

varian Tue 06-Aug-19 18:23:33

Republican Senator, Ben Sasse, who has publicly grappled with ambivalence about the Senate, the Republican Party and President Donald Trump, ended months of speculation about his plans with the announcement that he will run again for his Nebraska Senate seat.

“What’s at stake in 2020 is a choice between civics and socialism,” he said Monday at the Millard airport, outside of Omaha, where he was introduced by a string of state GOP leaders.

Sasse described a country facing a “civic crisis,” characterized by the opioid epidemic and the “rise in socialism of people under the age of 35.” He also described the weekend mass shootings in Texas and Ohio as symptoms of the same crisis.

Those events, he said, were attributable to “surging racial hatred online, people willing to kill because they don’t understand the American idea” and to “fatherlessness” that “drives so many people to become lone rangers and killers.”

www.rollcall.com/news/campaigns/ben-sasse-one-of-the-senates-last-remaining-republican-trump-critics-to-seek-reelection

gmarie Tue 06-Aug-19 18:42:43

Here in the states, I find I have a hard time replying because I'm feeling so frustrated, unhappy, angry, sick to my stomach, depressed - you name it. I'm sure I'll get back to responding and acting on this in a few days. It's all too much. The El Paso incident is, without a doubt, a logical and predictable outcome of this president's disgusting Tweets and rally rants. I check the polls a few times a week and continue to be shocked that he has a stable approval rating in the low 40's. sad angry

Anja Tue 06-Aug-19 21:58:09

gmarie please don’t feel guilty or responsible in any way for this idiot and his moronic ramblings. More people voted for another than for him, it was just your electoral system that let you down.

Fight him sister!

jura2 Tue 06-Aug-19 22:03:42

Alexa 'Switzerland permits gun ownership but hasn't a comparable problem.'

indeed- but even in Switzerland, gun ownership has been tightened up hugely in recent years. Shooting clubs keep the guns locked up at the club, and anyone serving in the Army is encouraged to keep their gun at the Armoury, under lock and key. Hunters also have to keep guns locked up safely- and they have a long period of training. Anyone in a shooting club, army or hunting fraternity with mental issues or dodgy white supremacists views, etc- would be quickly found out. You also need police permission to buy a gun and it has to be registered. And no automatic machine guns !!!

Opal Tue 06-Aug-19 22:10:56

I'm no fan of Trump, but mass shootings are nothing new in the US and the blame for the latest episodes cannot be laid at his door more than previous Presidents. None of them have had the balls to take on the gun lobby!

MaizieD Tue 06-Aug-19 22:14:58

Switzerland permits gun ownership but hasn't a comparable problem

The Uk permits gun ownership, too. It also has no comparable problem.

In the UK gun ownership is quite tightly controlled. We also haven't been brought up to believe that we have an inalienable right to 'bear arms', or to believe any of the bullsh*t exposed in the Facebook post that jura posted earlier.

SueDonim Tue 06-Aug-19 22:16:16

Opal, Trump is very much responsible for creating a febrile atmosphere in which people feel they can take the law into their own hands. He doesn't have to have a gun in his hand to be held responsible for the reason why these latest attacks have happened - white supremacism.

Alexa Tue 06-Aug-19 22:16:41

Jura, I think what makes the big difference between Swiss gun ownership and US gun ownership is re Switzerland, to quote you:

"Anyone in a shooting club, army or hunting fraternity with mental issues or dodgy white supremacists views, etc- would be quickly found out. "

The other points you raise are relevant too . Dodgy white supremacist views are not taken seriously in the US and that;s the problem the US has. President Trump is not bothered by white supremacists ; his policies encourage them.

MaizieD Tue 06-Aug-19 22:17:04

X posts

Similar to the UK, then, jura?

MaizieD Tue 06-Aug-19 22:18:22

Alexa Are you actually aware that the UK permits gun ownership? Why focus on Switzerland?

SueDonim Tue 06-Aug-19 22:21:47

The tightening up of gun laws in Switzerland also had an unexpected - though very welcome- effect. It reduced the rates of suicide. www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/09/switzerland-military-gun-suicide/499028/

jura2 Tue 06-Aug-19 22:30:28

Yes, it did.

Maizie, until recently, serving in the Army was compulsory in Switzerland, for a few months, with regular refresher courses for a few weeks at a time- and the gun kept at home. I remember my dad's in the back of the cupboard. Until the age of 50. Now most men still serve, but have a choice of public/social service- and guns are kept at the Armoury. So a bit different to the UK with a professional army.