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Boris's plans to deal with violent crime

(70 Posts)
Fennel Tue 13-Aug-19 16:01:28

As far as I understand it, he plans to increase the number of prisons to deter those involved in gang/violent crime.
Apart from the financial and staffing practicalities, do you think this is the answer?

growstuff Wed 14-Aug-19 16:01:35

I've never been to a holiday camp, but if they're anything like the prison cells I've seen, I think I've had a lucky escape. :-(

suzied Wed 14-Aug-19 17:06:09

I don't think anyone who's actually been in or visited a prison would actually call them a "holiday camp". Staff shortages mean prisoners are often locked upper 23 hours a day, with no association. Yes many have TV and or radio in their cells, but without them the staff would be unable to cope. Drugs and smuggled mobiles are rife in prisons - why? because of so few staff they cannot do regular cell searches. Education opportunities are very patchy, yet many of those inside have very low literacy skills, and there is little or no chance of rehabilitation. Better staffing and training in prisons would mean staff would have the chance of influencing some of the inmates, rather than just containment.

JenniferEccles Wed 14-Aug-19 17:07:42

GillT57 Disagree with me by all means - that is what these forums are for, but please do not indulge in insulting language.

You are doing yourself no favours at all by being so rude.
I have got no time for people who are unable to argue a point without resorting to insulting another poster, so please stop.

I strongly believe in being tough with criminals - you obviously disagree, which of course is your right.

growstuff Wed 14-Aug-19 17:20:02

In that case don't exaggerate the "luxury" of prison by calling them holiday camps. It's quite hard to keep one's cool when people make such assertions.

If you want a proper discussion, stick to facts.

suziewoozie Wed 14-Aug-19 17:25:47

Jennifer I honestly don’t think your posts demonstrate that you are well informed about conditions in most of our prisons. Have you followed the reports made by the Prison Inspectorate over the last few years? This is an informative link - you could read the first few pages and learn a great deal. The US has one of the highest if not the highest per capita imprisonment rate in the Western World, yet prisons are extremely tough. Can you honestly provide evidence ( not opinions) that demonstrate the tough prison regimes and high rates of imprisonment result in lower rates of offending?
www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2018/07/6.4472_HMI-Prisons_AR-2017-18_Content_A4_Final_WEB.pdf

GillT57 Wed 14-Aug-19 17:36:29

Actually Jennifereccles I was tempering my language as your post made me very angry. Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions but ill informed statements about 'holiday camps' have no validity as it is completely and utterly untrue. Unless you holiday in a 10x8 room with a stranger, use the shared toilet in the corner of said room, spend 23 hours in the room with a potentially smelly stranger as you are not permitted daily showers. If this is your idea of a holiday camp, please accept my apologies, otherwise do your research, it isn't difficult and there are many links already provided.

suziewoozie Wed 14-Aug-19 17:48:09

Gill you forgot the companionship provided by the rats, mice and cockroaches and the air conditioning courtesy of the broken window panes.

Iam64 Wed 14-Aug-19 19:58:38

Have you ever been inside a prison JenniferEccles? Any one who has would never describe the buildings, much less the regimes as "like a holiday camp". Prisons are tough places for inmates and for staff. Many people who are in prison shouldn't be there, they have significant mental health problems and need a therapeutic environment. that is particularly so where women's prisons are concerned.
You may see me as some lefti liberal who knows nothing of the Real World. You'd be so very far from the truth.

JenniferEccles Thu 15-Aug-19 12:49:37

Ok maybe holiday camp was a bit of an exaggeration but I still have no sympathy whatsoever for those who end up in prison.

After all we all know that most just get a slapped wrist these days.

varian Thu 15-Aug-19 12:51:24

How do you know that JenneiferEccles?

suziewoozie Thu 15-Aug-19 15:21:30

No Jennifer holiday camp wasn’t an exaggeration but a totally fallacious description which some might think was based on ignorance and prejudice. In my opinion, your posts demonstrate no knowledge whatsoever of the prison system and its inmates. Did you read my link?

GillT57 Thu 15-Aug-19 15:48:48

Just give it up jennifereccles you know nothing whatsoever about the prison system and its failings. Other than the dog whistle reactionary rubbish you read in certain newspapers and then trot out as fact. Opinions are valid on GN but when it is ill informed and narrow minded don't cry when you get corrected.

suzied Thu 15-Aug-19 16:30:11

I can understand a vindictive desire for revenge when you are the victim of a horrible crime, and I don't think anyone has any objection to those who commit violent or sexual offences being contained for a long time, however, so many of those who are locked up are no threat to society and maybe should be made to pay for their crimes in a more humane and constructive way than prison currently provides.

GillT57 Thu 15-Aug-19 17:23:30

Yes suzied I too can agree that we would all feel that way, and many criminal acts deserve severe sentences for punishment and protection purposes, I don't think any of us have a problem with that. But, the majority of criminals have poor mental health, addiction, dysfunctional family life, etc., and these are the problems which need to be addressed to prevent the people committing the crimes and ending up in 'the system'. I agree that there should be a more constructive way to deal with people's crimes, but the biggest problem is that action to prevent initial offences or re-offending cost money and that brings out the Pritti Patel rhetoric with talk of punishment, fear, revenge etc and then we get people describing prisons as holiday camps. Initiatives to improve adult literacy are proven to work as the illiteracy rate amongst prisoners are very high, but again, it is hard to undertake these programmes when the majority of prisoners are locked up for 23 hours a day due to funding shortages and subsequent staffing levels being reduced, not to mention when you have idiotic moves by people like Chris Grayling to stop prisoners from receiving books. ( subsequently cancelled).

Dinahmo Thu 15-Aug-19 18:33:58

Increase in crime/reduction in youth facilities. Correlation?

There is a lot of talk on here about deterrents but in the UK nearly 70% of prisoners are re-convicted. One reason is that they don't think they'll get caught.

In our glorious past people were sentenced to death or transportation to the colonies for stealing a sheep or some game. That wasn't a deterrent. Life imprisonment isn't a deterrent because people often act without thinking of the consequences.

varian Thu 15-Aug-19 18:38:53

It's not just that they think they won't get caught. it's also because of the tricks they learned in their spell at a university of crime, which turns petty offenders into nasty hardened criminals.

Dinahmo Thu 15-Aug-19 18:44:37

Day6 The comments about the Express the Mail and the Sun are justified, IMHO. Their proprietors are individuals and/or corporations who have a right wing agenda because they want to see the UK become a tax haven, amongst other things. They don't want us to remain in the EU because of the legislation that is being introduced on 1 January 2020 concerning the press.

Fennel Thu 15-Aug-19 19:58:46

There was a very upsetting incident of murder yesterday in Newcastle centre.
The cause isn't known yet, but an apparently innocent middle aged man was confronted by a group of teenagers, stabbed with a screwdriver, and died from his wound.
7 teenagers have been arrested.
What causes young people to behave that way?

Fennel Fri 16-Aug-19 09:14:07

ps it seems the victim was a lawyer - that might be a clue to the motive.