Corbyn as caretaker

Grandad

"Jabberwok, opposition politicians in the House of Commons have to rely on the reports that the government of the day provide to the house. In that, they also rely on the competence and knowledge of those in government in writing those reports.

In the above, when it is demonstrated that those in government through incompetence, dishonesty and self-interest have misled the House, as is the case with this government, then to have a motion of no confidence placed before all MPs is the constitutional way forward."
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You keep saying this but the Conservative Party campaigned to REMAIN and most certainly told the public a vote to Leave would be disastrous.

How did the ' government of the day' mislead the public or the House?

POGS, you seem to spend a considerable amount of time in "Carping" at all and sundry on this forum and many outside of it in regard to the solutions they put forward to resolve the current crisis this country now finds itself in.

However, as far as I am aware you have never put forward any solutions to those problems yourself. So, POGS would care to inform this forum of how you view the current Brexit crisis being resolved.

Could it be that you believe that the current Boris Johnson solution of Britain leaving the largest and most powerful trading block in the world with no leave agreement would be the correct one?

So, come on POGs really join the debate and be forthcoming with your solutions.

It seems to me that unless some other legal device can be used to stop a no deal brexit a government of national unity is our best option.

No thank you just leave it to Boris to get us out of this mess even if it means leaving with a no deal

The mess we are in is othing compared to tbe mess we would be in if we let Boris carry on.

We must stop brexit got the sake of our children a d grandcbildren

I would agree varian with your post @21:16 today. For all those that believe that Britain "crashing out" of the EU with no deal would be disastrous for the British economy there would seem to be little other option but to have a "very temporary" government of national unity.

It may well be that there are those that voted in favour of the United Kingdom leaving the EU after hearing that a leave and trading agreement would be "the easiest negotiations ever concluded."

However, the above has not and will not now come about due to the ignorance and incompetence of this Tory government.

In the above, I believe that many (such as myself) feel that the result of the referendum has to be upheld. However, in Britain honouring that result, then the UK must obtain from the EU on leaving a free trade and full customs agreement.

And that is well possible.

Why would anyone one want to enact the result of a fraudulent referendum which was won by foriegn interference, lies and cheating and which would inflct terriible damage on our country?

varian Quote [ Why would anyone one want to enact the result of a fraudulent referendum which was won by foriegn interference, lies and cheating and which would inflct terriible damage on our country?] End Quote.

There is much I would concur within your above post varian. However, I do not believe that those who voted Leave in the referendum would just "sit back and accept it" if the result of that original referendum was just disregarded and a second instituted.

The above could bring widespread disruption onto the streets of Britain while that second referendum campaign was carried out. As evidence of the possibility of the above coming about, reports of attacks on those who have admitted to voting to leave the European Union have been rapidly increasing in recent weeks in Britains workplaces. That situation has become especially prevalent in industries where employees feel that Brexit will have a very detrimental effect on their future employment. My own company has in several cases in recent weeks advised several employers as to their safety obligations in regard to such incidents occurring on their premises.

The above is the reason I believe that the result of the referendum must be upheld, but on leaving Britain must obtain from the EU a full trade and customs agreement to mitigate the impact on employment and in that the whole British economy.

Failure to have those agreements would I feel bring that pent up feeling and growing violence now in Britains workplace onto the streets of this nation should the referendum result be disregarded.

As awful as the above may be, that is the real situation that Britain is now in I believe.

We must not be bullied by the brexit liars threatening civil unrest.

Most British people want to Remain in the EU.

Leavers want brexit "do or die"

Remainers want to revoke Article 50

A compromise would be another referendum.

varian Quote [We must not be bullied by the brexit liars threatening civil unrest.

Most British people want to Remain in the EU.

Leavers want brexit "do or die"

Remainers want to revoke Article 50

A compromise would be another referendum.] End Quote

And thereby lies the basis for a terrible conflict.

We have had a terrible conflict for the last three years. It seems to most of us that the brexit nonsense should be stopped but if there are still leave voters who cannot accept that let us have another vote.

The above could bring widespread disruption onto the streets of Britain while that second referendum campaign was carried out. As evidence of the possibility of the above coming about, reports of attacks on those who have admitted to voting to leave the European Union have been rapidly increasing in recent weeks in Britains workplaces.

I'm not sure that I follow your reasoning, Grandad

Don't 'attacks on those who have admitted to voting leave' suggest that should we actually leave these attacks could intensify? Surely leaving would exacerbate rather than calm this situation?

I'm very sorry to hear that this is happening, though it doesn't appear to be common knowledge.

on leaving Britain must obtain from the EU a full trade and customs agreement to mitigate the impact on employment and in that the whole British economy.

I see very little prospect of that happening. That being so, I would rather we dealt with disappointed Leavers from a position within the EU, offering the prospect of retaining jobs and economic recovery, than have to deal with equally disappointed Remain voters facing unemployment and even more 'austerity'. (And, perhaps, with leave voters who, having been promised a rosy future outside the EU, are not quite so willing to accept a period of 'difficulty' as some of our fervent Gnet Leavers seem to be.)

These useful idiots resolve looks like its going to be very short lived indeed, The Remain club is falling apart, riven by dissent and bickering. Thank goodness we no longer have T. May as PM and Brexiteers are now in charge. Roll on October 31st.

MaizieD, no employer is going to admit that employee disruption and violence is taking place on their premises. That is the reasons why it is not being widely reported. It could be also that the mass media considers that it would not be wise to bring such instability to public attention in the present situation. (just my thoughts on that in the last).

In regard to attacks on leave voters in workplaces where it is thought that large-scale redundancies could take place should Britain leave with no deal, then that is very much now happening.

However, should it be that the result of the referendum was disregarded and a second referendum brought about, then the workplace situation could be reversed with those who voted leave having very strong feelings against those they view as being responsible for their majority view being ignored.

It does not take much to imagine what could happen at campaign meetings with feeling on both sides running very high.

Evidence to the above can be witnessed in Varians post @ 22:41 today. In that as a rabid remainer, Varian exhibits no compromise whatsoever.

You only need that on both sides in this ever-growing crisis to have the foundations of a terrible conflict.

Grieve and other Tory members have today pointed out they are not prepared to bring down their Government merely to put a Corbyn Government in its place.

Without Tory rebel support, there's not a hope in hell of giving Boris the boot.

Labour just doesn't have the numbers, with or without Swinson's support. No GNU will be possible without a PM candidate who can win those Tory rebel votes.

How do you know about these attacks, Grandad? I've just spend a few minutes searching for "Brexit workplace attack" and could find nothing, apart from reports of attacks on Polish workers.

If violence is taking place at work, employers have a legal duty to report it.

I have a (maybe ...?) unique way of judging politicians. (Bearing in mind, that we don't know them at all - only by their actions and their public persona.)

Would you let this person babysit your grandchildren?

Johnson ...? No!

Gove ...? Maybe

Diane Abbot ... No!

Teresa May ...? Yes

Hilary Benn ...? Yes

Oh, I could go on and on. Try it for yourself!

BUT ...

CORBYN ...? No Way! I wouldn't trust this man to look after my houseplants - let alone a 'Caretaker Government'!

There was a really interesting programme on Channel 5 called "The Trouble with the Tories" (Part 2), written and presented by Michael Portillo. Portillo is a Brexiter, but the programme is quite factual and has interviews with a number of leading politicians.

I can't do a direct link but it can be found on Channel 5 catch up.

Grandad, From what I have seen, Varian is very open about her views. However, I really don't see the post in any way compares with the kind of violence you're claiming. Quite honestly, I have seen more aggression from Brexiters at some of the marches they have organised. For example, I can understand that some people find Steve Bray annoying, but I haven't seen any evidence that Remainers have acted towards Leavers in the way Brexiters did towards him. I haven't seen any Remainers hassling Leave MPs in the way Anna Soubry was verbally abused.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to believe you.

Unfortunately, some Brexiters seem to forget that nearly 16 million (or more) people disagree with them, some of whom will have their lives affected. It seems they don't care and are quite happy to goad people with their silly comments about having parties. It really does seem that these people don't care that there really is no solution to the Irish border and things aren't going to turn out alright on the night. The divisions in society will continue for decades, as people lose their jobs and freedom to live/work in Europe, prices of many commodities rise and we depend even more on the US. Rather than uniting the country with its Goebbels-style rhetoric, the fundamentals on which our society is based are being smashed, which is precisely what Farage & Co have wanted all along.

Thank you growstuff

I think it is both revealing and alarming that Grandad calls me a "rabid remainer" because I have not changed my view that the UK should remain a full member of the EU.

I am not "rabid". I am a rational remainer, a fervent remainer, a staunch remainer, someone who sees that although the EU is far from perfect, our membership has been hugely beneficial and I naturally want it to continue.

The casual abuse of anyone who will not accept the unacceptable or defend the indefensible as " rabid" may be commonplace in the Daily Express, but it is sad to see on GN.

varian, I addressed you as a rabid remainer as continually see only one solution to the Brexit crisis, that being the annulment of the 2016 Referendum result, and then for Britain to remain in the European Union.

I too am a remainer, but I recognise that the above will never be accepted by those (the majority) who voted leave. Therefore, a compromise has to be found and that I believe would be to bring about a General Election which (hopefully) would be an acceptable solution to the vast majority in this country.

So varian, I apologize if you found my use of the word "rabid" offensive but I always view persons who are unable to seek or find Compromise in their held views as "rabid".

Anyway, I am off to the office for a couple of hours and will address points raised overnight by growmore overnight on return.

Rabid Corbynites ?

How would a general election solve anything?

It wouldn't show whether people are for or against Brexit because people would not necessarily vote according to their Brexit views. Apparently, there are about 5 million Conservative Remainers. Many would vote LibDem, but many would stick with the Conservatives, especially if they thought a Labour candidate might win.

Labour doesn't really count as a Remain party either, although some would vote Labour for their social policies. Corbyn has flipflopped over Brexit so much. His fence sitting has nowhere else to go.

A general election wouldn't result in the "unicorn" solution of a "soft Brexit" many people had thought possible. It would still end up with "no deal" because that's all that's left.

Both Conservative and Labour parties are more concerned about trying to hold their parties together by outdoing the Farage mob than what would be best for the country.

Whatever the outcome of a general election, the country would still be split almost half and half with nobody really knowing how people would vote in a second referendum.

We need a strong leader who is respected by the majority of MPs, who has the courage to do something which will probably be deeply unpopular and has no career aspirations, which is why Ken Clark and Harriet Harman have been suggested. Margaret Becket is another person whose name has been mentioned. Corbyn is not up to the job.

It’s telling that Jo Swinson was happier propping up David Cameron for five years than the Labour leader for five weeks!