Prince Andrew

He must be stupid to say he was appalled to learn of Epstein’s
crimes yet met Epstein after he had been in prison for the crimes

I recall ‘Randy Andy’ was quite proud of his moniker.

LondonGranny you are by no means alone. This is far more common than people like to think.
?

Thank you, all of you.

One thing that always calms when the adrenaline goes ape is the sound of Hamlet Gonashvili, a Georgian folk singer. I have no connection with Georgia and have absolutely no idea what he's singing about but when I hear this, all is well.

He died too young, falling out of an apple tree in the early 1980s. The video quality is dire but his voice is beautiful. I can't remember how I came across him but this is the sound of beauty and calm. I've had this on a loop often!

It can sometimes be hard to realise but there is great calm and beauty in the world whether it's growing a plant from seed, watching a baby reach out for something for the first time or listening to a beautiful voice.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7ZiUWfWibY

I'm so sorry to hear your story LondonGranny. The experience must have been awful, and the not being believed sounds almost worse. I'm in awe of how you have found coping mechanisms, and your achievements are worth so much more than those of an abuser.

The image of woodlouse days is so touching. I hope they will become fewer and "invincible you" triumphs.

LondonGranny ??

Well done you,I know my daughter still has nightmares about the abuse she suffered and I'd imagine there are times when it haunts you too .Even the mention of his name will see her stiffen and hold her breath.Sadly she has friends who still have contact with him and although they know she doesn't want to hear about him or his family sometimes things will slip out in passing conversation.
On a positive note domestic abuse and sexual abuse is taken much more seriously by the police nowadays ,not much use to you or my daughter if you've the same mindset.She wouldn't want it dragged up now when she has young daughters though she makes sure they know how to stay safe ..in all circumstances .I wish you well for the future ,peace of mind and happiness .

....but I don't believe rape or sexual abuse is a fate worse than death. Death is the worst fate whether by murder, suicide or a slow path of self-destruction though drugs, alcohol and other risky behaviours.
On the whole I've fared pretty well in spite of it. I'm one of the luckier ones.

....and sometimes when parents don't believe I think it's because they just cannot bear to get to get their heads around it, it's too awful to contemplate but sometimes they just don't give a flying flamingo (my dad).

...and don't stress about asking for a link, it's just there is no one link, ever. You have to dig and delve. It's why I love Bellingcat so much. It takes time and patience.
They uncover war crimes (which often involves rape as a weapon) as well as organised child abuse. Also you can stay indoors and do it on woodlouse days.
www.bellingcat.com

I would also add that although sometimes I wish I was the size of a woodlouse and could just hide under a pebble sometimes I feel invincible. It just depends.

My mother felt enormous guilt for being taken in by him though. It wasn't her fault IT WAS HIS FAULT

Oh my mother believed me, it was the police that didn't. I also got grief at my secondary school because they didn't believe me either because the man who abused me 'did so much for young people'.
It's why I never sat my O levels or went to university. and why I fell apart by the age of 15 and attempted suicide (and I got harsh treatment at A&E about that, although attitudes have changed somewhat since back then).
I'm OK-ish now but sometimes now I don't have to I don't leave the house for weeks (usually after some unpleasant incident involving a random bloke). I'm amazed I held down a job for so long (and was bloody good at it). I've nearly always worked with young people because they need someone on their side who listens to them. Often that was in voluntary work out of hours when doing a low-paid low-value job but by the time I was 30ish I got better more valued work, but never well-paid.

LondonGranny I am so very sorry you suffered sexual abuse as a child and am shocked your mother wouldn’t believe you, why oh why do parents not believe their child.

Anyway , again I am so sorry , if I had known you had been a victim I would not have asked you for the link

...and it's absolutely not the same as the rich having mistresses or CEOs with a bit on the side.

...and the more respected someone is or the richer they are, the easier they find it to get away scot free. Look at Trump.

...and the main reason I followed this case was because I knew someone from Dade County. Not someone involved in this but I knew Dade County as a place with a lot of poverty and corrupt law enforcement.

No, I categorically wasn't abused by Prince Andrew. That's the best laugh I've had this week! I was abused as a young teenager by a man who totally took in my mother because he was charming and plausible and offered to 'help' me. He saw I was naive & vulnerable and that's all he needed to know. He was a primary school teacher, became a headmaster and later quite a senior figure in the education system. I wasn't believed. I've also had the usual groping on the tube etc, neighbour giving me a lift home in the rain and assaulting me in his car etc etc etc.
If you get a group of women together it's hard to find one that's not ever suffered some sort of abuse whether it's a grope on the bus, being kerb-crawled by a man in a car as a schoolchild or who has been raped at a party or whatever. Most women have lost count of verbal sexualised abuse or gropes etc. Good men are horrified by the exent of it to be honest and often find it implausible.
The thing that upsets me most is the focus on how girls and women have the onus put on them to stay safe from an early age. It's women who are told to stay indoors, not men.

paddyann
I totally believe he killed himself. They so very often do. They know that the evidence is too overwhelming and money or power won't save them. If you think UK prisons are bad (they are not holiday camps, don't believe the tabloids) then trust me, US prisons are so much worse. He took the coward's way out.
The only conspiracy here is why he (and so many others) got away with it for so long. Eventually money won't buy your way out.

I haven’t read any posts which has blamed a 17 year old girl, I
have questioned her parents part in it

Do you believe he DID kill himself LondonGranny or was he done away with by the rich and famous to save themselves? How many "names" will be quaking in their shoes now they know about his little black book? I hope for your sake and for all the other victims of these vile abusers they are all found guilty and locked up for a very long time .
Many years ago my daughter was abused by a live in boyfriend,she called the police ,her neighbours called the police ,her friends called the police ..the wee shit got off with it but in the intervening months she almost died because of his beatings .It was a "domestic" apparently !! Hopefully we know differently now and these "men" are brought to justice .Regardless of who they are !

The young woman at the centre of the PA allegations was selected outside school,bagged 15. Her father recently said he believed GMaxwell that his child was being trained at a masseur. Most parents would have said keep away and taken their child home. My impression was he was a drinker, impressed by wealth. He now says he regrets not refusing to allow his child to “work “ and be “trained”.
She was groomed and exploited in the same way the Girls in British grooming scandals were
I’m always mystified when some people seek to put responsibility on young women like this, rather than those who exploit them

Were you abused by Andrew LondonGranny, there has been cases of child abuse in this country , did you follow all those too, why Epstein?

I don't have one handy link that has a short readable precis. Go to the Miami Herald first (you need to read the last eleven years of all this) and then google for court documents, particularly Dade County. I looked at all this over a long time because I've been there, done that, got the PTSD (and no conviction or even a charge). I didn't look closely at this to inform others and provide them with handy links. I did my own research and wanted to see justice done in a sort of vicarious way to ease my own sense of injustice about something that happened here in the UK to me when I was much much younger. Epstein killing himself was like a punch in the guts. God knows how much worse it is for his victims.

If the Maxwell woman picked the girl up in her car it happened before Epstein was found guilty and jailed, yet she wasn’t charged when Epstein was

Will you post a link please LondonGranny