Chinese buying up all the baby milk !

Actually, formula feeding isn't at all convenient. You've got to pay for the milk, buy bottles and some method of sterilising them. Then there's the faff of making up feeds. These days they recommend each bottle is made fresh for each feed, no making up the day's worth in the morning. I doubt rising at 2am to make a bottle is convenient for most people.

In fact, when asked, most women who give up breastfeeding say they wish they could have continued for longer. My own dd persisted for three difficult months but despite much help from the NHS and paying a not inconsiderable amount to a private counsellor she had to face the fact her baby wasn't thriving on breast milk alone. She had never considered the possibility of not being able to breastfeed and it came as a dreadful shock to her.

So, please, let's have less judging of women who are trying to do their best.

Absolutely SueDonim! I liked breastfeeding because I'm basically lazy If it suits you to do it, and you find it doable, it's the easiest way to feed a baby. Always on tap and no faffing about with sterilizers etc and no cost for bottles, formula etc. I persevered through cracked bleeding nipples until they toughened up, but that was my choice and certainly didn't entitle me to any halos. I've never met a mum who wasn't doing the best they can for their baby. ( I do realise a tiny percentage of women don't put their baby first, I've just never met one)

I'm a "lazy" breast feeder as well. The sheer paraphenalia f bottles intimidated me. I always imagined I would end up not sterilising enough. As for the breast feeding mafia. I don't think it's any such thing. I think it is women trying to convince other women that they shouldn't be brainwashed by the amount of publicity they get from milk manufacturers, which is big business, and that most can do something, which is natural and which has kept the human race going for a long time before baby milk was invented. Of course there are women who can't. But there isn't enough support for women who want to, so there is no mafia.

Very true, Trisher, there often isn't enough support for women who want to breastfeed. After all, there's little profit in it, except maybe for special bras. My own dd had plenty of support but that came with its own problem in that people weren't singing from the same hymn sheet. What one person told her would then be contradicted by the next person. She ended up completely confused although she did persist for three months, even though they were pretty miserable ones.

Another aspect is that in today's modern world mothers live relatively isolated lives, without the support of female relatives and friends close by, and we grow up without the intimate knowledge of babies and children that families of ten or twelve siblings would provide.

Still, my dd did her best with the knowledge and support she had at the time and you can't ask for more.

There’s loads of support for mothers who want to breastfeed!
And yes, there is a breast feeding mafia out there.

That often depends where you live, Lemongrove. It's patchy and not always easy to access. Also, it's very inconsistent. My dd was told so many different things by so many different people.
Feed the baby every time she squeaks. Don't feed her unless she's really hungry.
Don't give her any formula top-ups. Give her top-ups.
Give her water. Don't give her water.
Latch her on this way. No, latch her that way.
Use this cream for sore nipples. No, use that cream.
Express in between feeds. Don't express between feeds.

I've breastfed three children and even I was utterly bewildered by all this conflicting advice.

There might be plenty of advice out there, but new mothers are most likely to be influenced by their immediate family and friends. We Brits don't like 'experts', remember? If they are surrounded by happy bottle feeders they're more likely to bottle feed right from the start or give up at the first sign of bother.

And by support I mean things like providing space to feed, or opportunities to feed when you return to work, not just 'how to do it'. It is an example of how devalued breast feeding is in society that someone should accuse other women of being a breast feeding mafia.

I think there are two issues. I agree with you that breast feeding in public should be made easier (off topic, but it's the same for diabetics with injecting insulin).

However, I've always understood the "breastfeeding mafia" to be the women (and some men) who seem to delight in telling other women how to feed their babies and making them feel inadequate if they don't breastfeed.

But why are other women and some men being refered to as a 'mafia' growstuff ? Just because they are offering advice? Any way it's not a very good mafia Britain has the lowest breast feeding rates in the world

I've been 'out' of the breastfeeding game for over 30 years. And I'm aware that I'm stepping not just into the lions den, but the JAWS of the lion for suggesting this, but..

It seems to me that the people with the issue are those who are NOT breastfeeding. Not others who ARE.

I've not seen or heard anything on here that suggested that women who formula feed are wrong. There ARE organisations that are against it, such as La Leche League, but they are extreme.

Is it possible that there are feelings of inferiority (NOT actual inferiority), guilt and regret in some mums who have to use formula, which assumes that others are judging them?

No offense intended, but it seems to me that any mum with a little baby, is far too busy coping with her own baby to worry about what some other women do with their own children.

These are quotes from Hetty58.

How about making baby milk available on prescription only?
That would solve the problem (although the majority of mums can easily breastfeed anyway). Another advantage would be the need to discuss options first with a doctor as bottle feeding is second best.

They sound pretty judgmental to me. Some women, maybe even most, find breastfeeding easy. I didn't, and neither did my daughter. Telling women that they're giving their babies something that's second best isn't exactly supportive.

Growstuff, I'm not being moralistic, just practical. After a chat with a GP, mums might decide to continue breast feeding instead. It's just too convenient to pick it up in a shop (and tempting after a sleepless night, sore nipples etc.) but why risk a child's lifetime health and longevity?

Why would you speak to a GP about breastfeeding? They learn diddly-squat about breastfeeding in their training and in fact even midwives are taught very little. Again, insinuating that by giving formula you're risking your child's lifetime health and longevity is not useful. How about a bit of sympathy and understanding instead, thereby creating the sort of environment where women would feel more supported by other women.

I write this as a long-standing member of NCT and as a mother who breastfed long-term three out four babies. Fwiw, the baby who was fed most successfully was the one who had the poorest health, not that anecdotes prove anything.

But comments from 1 person do not constitute a breast feeding mafia SueDonim and the lowest breast feeding rate in the world indicates that actually something is going wrong.

But you're doing it too, trisher.

You're claiming something is going wrong if mothers don't breastfeed.

Plenty of women don't want to breastfeed, despite being given information. They don't have to justify themselves. It's their business and nobody else's.

In a country where clean water is freely available, such as the UK, there is little evidence that bottle feeding is bad. It's different in third world countries, where water is sometimes contaminated and companies are encouraging women to bottlefeed, possibly so that they can go back to work earlier.

SueDonin - Absolutely agree with your post, imagine a mother struggling with postnatal depression and then having issues with breastfeeding. How much worse would all that be if they had the misfortune to happen across the likes of the delightful Hetty a smug personification of judgemental all neatly packaged into a censorious know it all "This new mother is what you should do, it worked for me, and it'll damn well work for you too!"

Poor Gilly she must wonder how her issue with not being able to get formula in Newcastle has morphed into this judgey thread about women who can't or worse still WON'T breastfeed

Another lazy feeder - had an emergency section for DD1 after a very difficult labour (transversal breech) - no advice and very very painful- but I got there, and thank goodness.

On a recent visit to UK I bought 15 packs of formula for a young English friend- as it was much cheaper in UK- so guilty as charged, even though I am not Chinese.

I expect I shall son be buying all sorts of stuff to bring to the UK on our next visits, including essential medicines for grandson and friends

So now I'm the Mafia for just stating the facts. I think people are oversensitive, perhaps because they're well aware of what's best, but I'd never criticise any individual for bottle-feeding a baby. I just think it's a great shame that so many do and, of course, commercial interests are involved.

"I'd never criticise any individual for bottle-feeding"

except perhaps to say "it's too convenient to pick it up in a shop after a sleepless night, sore nipples etc".

and " why risk a child's lifetime health and longevity" what sort of spin would you put on those last few words then????sure sounds like a criticism to me!

criticism definition - The expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of faults or mistakes.

I'm afraid there are plenty of women who criticise others for not breast feeding, including you, Hetty, if you read back what you've written.

I bottle fed both my babies for various reasons and I still remember the smug, sanctimonious, preachy types who kept going on about breast being best. In the end, I stopped going to any post-natal sessions and refused point blank to see the health visitor (although I did see my GP for baby checks).

I had an emergency section after hoping for a natural birth and was stuck in hospital next to a woman with a very loud voice, who announced at every opportunity how she's given birth with no painkillers at all. Not only that, but she told everybody how she disapproved of bottle feeding. I met plenty of others like her.

I was quite ill after giving birth and breast feeding just wasn't going to happen for me. Nevertheless, both my children grew up to be healthy adults, who have hardly ever needed any medical treatment.

Unfortunately, I suffered from depression for years. Part of that was because I felt a failure for not being able to give birth naturally and not doing my duty by breastfeeding.

So, Hetty, please don't accuse people of being "oversensitive" and suggesting that "they're well aware what's best". The best thing for my babies was that they were fed, kept warm and given lots of love.

TerriBull, I think you understand where I'm coming from.

I just find it so very sad that what should be the most special moment in a woman's/couples life should be marred by judgemtental women who think they know better.

The mother knows what is best for her and her baby, no ifs nor buts!!!

There is of course no doubt that a mother should decide for herself (and I don't think anyone has actually disagreed with this) but it really should be easier and more supportive for women who want to breast feed. The very real benefits for both mother and baby are important.

There is a difference between deciding for yourself and being left alone, and being 'given advice' by people who think they know best.

The latter is clearly evidence that the advice giver thinks that your decision is wrong.