Chinese buying up all the baby milk !

I don't think that I've expressed disapproval anywhere. We are given the advice that we shouldn't make anyone feel guilty for choosing to bottle feed. For the vast majority, it is a choice, though. It's extremely rare to not be physically able to, although it's often claimed to be the case.

Still, it's perfectly obvious that breastfeeding is best, for both baby and mother. That's why a defensive reaction to the facts is inevitable:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/12129741/Breastfeeding-could-save-800000-babies-lives-each-year-study.html

I do growstuff and your experiences illustrate the difficulties some women go through. Just as we don't all have the same menopause, some sail through it, others want to top themselves, so it is with giving birth and the physical aftermath of that. Why is it that some women instead of being sympathetic feel the need to get on their high horse and make moral judgements I've heard it suggested that mothers, who, for whatever reasons don't breastfeed are maybe too stupid, ignorant or wilful in such a choice. So much for the sisterhood I'd support any woman in whatever method they opt for as to feeding their baby, as indeed I support mothers who need to breastfeed in cafes and restaurants. I think it's truly awful when women have been admonished or ejected for doing that.

TerriBull, I agree with feeding wherever necessary, I did with the help of a large pashmina, in restaurants, on public transport anywhere when Baby was hungry basically.

I probably have more flesh on show at the beach than when I breastfed.

Hetty58 how many of those 800,000 saved babies are in the UK? I'd put money on the vast majority of those saved lives being in developing world countries, two of which I've lived in and where I've seen the conditions in which people,live.

I'm more struck by this part of the report you link to.

“The success or failure of breastfeeding should not be seen solely as the responsibility of the woman,” said Dr Nigel Rollins of the World Health Organisation (WHO). “Her ability to breastfeed is very much shaped by the support and the environment in which she lives. There is a broader responsibility of governments and society to support women through policies and programmes in the community.”

Criticism isn't support.

My daughter is pregnant with her second child, she has had bi-lateral partial mastectomies, she is totally devastated each time she has to explain why she is going to bottle feed.

She couldn't feed her first child either, and was reduced to tears frequently during her three day stay in hospital after the most horrendous birth, when midwifes bullied her into trying over and over again (this was pre breast op).

*midwives not midwifes

Why should she have to explain to anyone, Grannygravy? It's no one else's business! I do hope everything goes well for your daughter.

SueDonim, I should have said "explaining at ante-natal clinic", as they tend to bombard with "Bounty Bags" etc and hand out leaflets encouraging breastfeeding before actually reading the patients notes.

Ah, I see. If I was your dd, I'd quietly bin them.

Show your dd this article, GrannyGravy, and hopefully everything works out well for her:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/20/is-breast-really-best-i-looked-at-all-the-data-to-find-out

Of course it isn't right to criticise but when expressing a concern that a highly developed country has the lowest breast feeding rate in the world is regarded as pressuring or being negative towards women I despair. It is no such thing . It is asking a question "Why" to which the answer possibly is that our society still does not recognise a breast feeding woman as someone worthy of special arrangements. The patriachy still devalues us. So women who return to work cannot have special arrangements to feed their child, women are asked to leave cafes and sometimes have to sit on the floor to feed. And women condemn other women who are simply saying one method of feeding is better than another by referring to them as 'mafia'. At the same time large companies subtly advertise their milk products for babies under the guise of follow on milk. It is amazing how some don't realise what is going on.

The last words of that article are so important growstuff
I believe we would be better off in a world where women get enough support to find out if breastfeeding works for them, and if they decide it doesn’t, formula-feeding is supported and not shamed
Unfortunately there still isn't the support.In some societies, where women live in family groups particularly, a new mum will have constant help and assistance until she has established feeding.

All this fuss about breast or bottle feeding. When the little darlings are in their teens, goodness knows how much junk they will be eating or drinking!
????

I agree that in some societies, water is dirty and formula milk is expensive. It's immoral that big companies spend so much in the third world BUT you're still starting from the premise that breast is best, which makes anybody who can't (or doesn't want to) breast feed feel stigmatised. Can't you see that?

In the UK, water is clean and most women have the facilities to boil water and sterilise bottles. As the article shows, the health benefits are minimal and certainly not worth shoving down every pregnant woman's throat.

As Calendargirl points out, when those babies get to be teenagers, it's much more difficult to control what they eat and drink. Personally, I think parents need more support with teenagers suffering depression or turning to illegal drugs.

Children in poorer homes in China are probably doing better than those fed expensive foreign baby milk because their parents are doing what they always did - breast feed them -.

Feeding babies expensive foreign baby milk brands, is partially safety but mainly part of a national game of 'keeping up with the Jones'. Foreign prestige companies with labels are always preferred to cheaper local or foreign brands - look at the way Chinese tourists flock to Bicester Designer Village. Mothers feeding their children foreign baby formula are showing off their wealth. They, and their babies, would be better doing what poorer women have to do - breast feed.

GG As a final post, hope your daughter's experience will be more positive this time around.

Talk about introduce an irrelevance. Still have it your way. Women who have babies in Britain are never influenced by milk advertising, bottle feed because they want to not because breast feeding is difficult in our society and are doing entirely the best thing for themseles and their baby. (NOT)
And you make accusations about breast feeding mafia!
It is unfortunate that some women fail to recognise the forces of patriachy present in society and actually do their work for them.

Breast is best if it works. For many reasons, it often doesn't the work. Time and again, surveys show that mothers who stop breastfeeding early wish they could have continued for longer, but for various reasons the dice were loaded against them.

When a breastfed baby is failing to thrive, losing weight, lethargic and miserable, then breastfeeding isn't best. Rather a formula-fed baby than the alternative.

So here we are - concerned about contaminated baby milk from China, and confirming that our EU based standards ares much better - those standards which will soon be lost to poor quality imports from all over, including China and USA...

beggars belief.

someone will be here soon and say, oh not the 'B' word again - and try to say there is NO connection. Won't wash.

In many cultures women are expected and allowed to rest and recover for a month after giving birth. Here, there's too much pressure to carry on as usual and snap back to slim and fashionable in a few weeks.

Motherhood itself inevitably brings guilt. We want to be perfect and nobody can be, whatever they do. It's often competitive too, with mothers comparing their own and their child's progress (as if in some race). They always have done, but I think it's got even worse in the last few generations. It's a shame as being relaxed and confident makes it all so much easier.

Chinese women want foreign baby milk, preferably a branded kind, not just because it is better than local but bcause Chinese society has gone from an extremist communist to an extremist materialist one. Everything has to have a 'name'and a label. Look how the Chinese descend on Bicester Designer Village when they come to the UK!

Bottle feeding your baby with a well-known foreign baby milk that costs a lot of money is another ostentatious way of showing how well off you are.

The poor who have to breast feed their babies will be looked down on, even though what they are doing is probably better for their child.

Many years ago, it was patronising and bullying midwives and health visitors (all female) who caused me years of depression. I hadn't realised how badly it still hurts, so going to leave this thread to go and teach a lovely Chinese student (the daughter of a very wealthy factory owner in Shanghai).

I am hesitate to join this debate - not having children so no experience of breast feeding, however, I think some women do experience difficulties and always have done.

I recall my mother telling me about women on the same ward as her who were unable to breast feed - as she produced a lot of milk she would donate some to help feed those babies

Most GNs are in agreement that a woman should have control over her own body, does not that include making a decision about whether to breast feed or not?

Of course it does sunseeker but there is still a culture ( unfortunately almost an all women one) of being sniffy towards mothers who choose to bottle feed.That choice is theirs to make.I both breast fed and bottle fed my three babies as circumstances were different with each of them, but had to tell bossy midwives and equally bossy mums groups acquaintances that it was my right, and choice to make.