Chestnut yes seems the courts can do anything but let us leave the EU.
Why doesn't Starmer hold another referendum?
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NO DEAL is the only way. The EU 'wrote' the WA Agreement.
(306 Posts)and it ties us to the EU indefinitely.
The Irish backstop could be the least of our worries.
May's WA must be rejected completely. It is an incredibly complicated document leaving hardly a subject not covered, and everything in it has been designed to be beneficial to the EU.
I doubt if any MP has read it from cover to cover. Nearly every paragraph is cross-referenced to a Treaty, Regulation or Directive, and each one has to be looked up, read and understood before moving on. It takes hours.
So says John Ashworth in his article This EU-written Withdrawal Agreement is toxic from start to finish
www.conservativewoman.co.uk/this-eu-written-withdrawal-agreement-is-toxic-from-start-to-finish/
It is a very revealing article, written by someone who has made an effort to link the words to the many treaties, acts and sub-paragraphs which determine the UK's role after a decidedly dodgy exit (or non-exit as it transpires) from the EU.
It is very worrying.
He concludes
During any transition period, we would not be classified as a ‘third country’, so although technically one could claim that we had left the EU, in practical terms, we *wouldn’t have done so – rather the opposite*
We would effectively be controlled by the EU to such a degree that we might just as well shut our Parliament down
We would finally become a ‘third country’ on 1 January 2023, as it is doubtful that the EU would consider an extension other than on the previous transition terms, which would essentially mean that we would still not have left the EU in any meaningful way
We would still be paying our ongoing fees, at full rate, to the EU. The EU would still control our fisheries and our armed forces and we would still be subject to the European Court of Justice, with our Parliament still essentially sidelined. No one in their right minds could want us to be in such a situation
We do not want Brexit in name only (BRINO) which is what the WA will give us, if our only request is the dropping of the backstop.
Boris, must be careful. May's WA is a non-starter. Farage, in waiting, understands that the WA has to be rejected - in full.
Latest poll from ComRes-
Con 31%
Lab 27%
LibDem 20%
Brexit 13%
Green 3%
www.comresglobal.com/polls/britain-elects-voting-intention-election-scenarios-and-brexit-polling-september-2019/
The reason the courts can’t do anything about the referendum vote is because it is ONLY ADVISORY AND ONE OF THE PARTICIPANTS HAS BE FOUND GUILTY OF FRAUD.
We keep banging on about it but it just never seems to sink in
Dear oh dear
No need to be rude Whitewavemark2. I haven't read your previous comments and I imagine many millions of other people haven't either. We are not hanging on your every word.
Calm down dear, we know all this.
My post was to Whitewave
If you know all this why ask such a stupid question?
If you are the slightest bit interested in British democracy please turn on the BBC Parliament channel now 0
Whitewave chill out.
Watching series on Netflix had enough of Gransnet and Brexit for one day.
Up to 150 motorway signs are being used to tell lorry drivers to prepare for a no-deal Brexit.
They will warn hauliers that the paperwork needed to move goods through customs may change from Nov 1.
The £8 million campaign will also see pop-up advice centres set up across 10 counties, in a bid to ensure industry is prepared.
Richard Burnett, the Road Haulage Association chief executive, welcomed the move, saying: “Traders, haulage operators in particular ... need to know, right now, how to get through the next few months.”
This colossal waste of taxpayers money to attempt to mitigate the damage of brexit could be instantly averted if we just stopped breit.
Revoke Article 50 and end the brexit nightmare once and for all.
More and more people are wanting to leave on Oct 31st with or without a deal.
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1176414/brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-exit-no-deal-latest-boris-johnson-uk-politics
People are sick of Bercow breaking parliamentary rules to allow back-benchers to seize control of parliamentary order paper from government. The role of the speaker is to be neutal
MP's are supposed to represent the will of the people but the rabble of MP's there now just want to push their own will. Yvette Cooper's constituency voted 70 % leave 30 % remain and yet she uses every opportunity to ignore wishes of her constituents. I hope she loses her seat at next GE. We are losing our democracy when MP's going against majority of their constituents.
MP's are trying to steal our democracy: Lib Dems openly with their cry of revoke article 50, and Labour stealthily by voting against every leave deal put forward before them.
The public are not stupid, despite what parliament thinks. Come the G,E they will get a shock at how strongly the public feels about MP's abuse of our democracy.
@Varian
The latest poll you quote also found
The majority of the British public (54%) agree that irrespective of whether or not they voted to leave the EU, the 2016 Referendum result should be respected.
Half of the British public disagree (49%) that Brexit should be delayed for a further three months to 31 January 2020, whilst less than three in ten (29%) agree.
This poll is ridiculous anyway,, it's based on the views of 1,488 ppeople!! Even BJ was elected by a higher proportion of the population than that!
That poll is in the Excess and reflects the views of its white, over 50, Brexit party loving readership. No surprise there then.
Actually, in fairness crystaltipps, according to the website, although the poll was commissioned by the Telegraph, "Data were weighted to be demographically representative of all GB adults." To me by far the main problem is the TINY number of people questioned, it really doesn't matter what the demographics were, there can only have been a minute number of people if it's stratified by age/race/social class/area of country etc. etc.
Even polls conducted according to recognised standards have a margin of error.
In addition results can be skewed by leading questions- as Sir Humphrey famously demonstrated.
So let's turn the debate upside down. If the 2016 referendum had resulted in 52% for remain and 48% for leave would Remainers still be saying this was unacceptable? Would they be demanding another vote? Of course not, they would be insisting this was a democratic vote and it was valid. So that really negates their argument.
There are those who will not accept democracy when it doesn't suit them.
It was hardly a landslide and we know the Eu haters would have still bogged on and not accepted the result, plus there is a difference in maintaining the status quo and turning society upside down on the say so of a minority of the population who didn’t have the knowledge of the implications.
^a minority of the population who didn’t have the knowledge of the implications.
Wow! You've just again insulted 17.4 million people who 'didn't know what they were voting for' and that Remainers 'know better'.
The best way to sort out the so called Irish backstop would be to reunite Ireland. Under the British. Lets face it, we have bailed them out so often financially that Eire basically belongs to the UK!
Chestnut posts - "You've just again insulted 17.4 million people who 'didn't know what they were voting for"
This mantra is getting a bit hackneyed.
For one thing absolutely no-one knew what they were voting for at the time of the fraudulent referendum of 2017.
How many even thought about the Irish border?
How many thought that we'd be better off with £350m to spend on the NHS?
How many thought that Leave meant "all the foriegners must leave" so after the vote, they asked their local Pakistani corner shop keeper "Why are you still here? we voted Leave"?
There were loads more ridiculous reasons that some quite decent folk were fooled into voting leave.
We now know that any kind of brexit will damage our country. The deal we have as EU members is the best deal we could possibly have.
To go back to the 17.4 m people who have been the only British citizens given any kind of consideration for the last three years.
More than a million of these leave voters have since died.
So out of a UK population of between 66 and 67 million people, at least 50 million UK citizens never voted for this brexit nonsense.
The last three years have been a nightmare of mass deception, sullied by lies and mantras repeated by those who know well they are spouting lies but think if you repeat the lies enough times folk will begin to believe them.
Enough is enough. We have indulged these charlatans and liars far too long.
We must, at the first opportunity Revoke Article 50 and Remain in the EU.
What a load pinko leftie crud.
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