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Will the web being woven, hold?

(318 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:18:05

Cummings game plan seems to be on course.

The tiny majority will be rendered a minority at a stroke by Cummings threat to take the whip away from any Tory rebels.

Johnson has then scapegoats to blame for his failure to deliver a brexit deal, and an excuse to go for a GE.

Labour will then fall in with the game plan by holding a VONC and a GE looks a distinct possibility sometime in Oct.
Johnson will fight it as the people v the elite who failed to deliver the democratic vote. (Bannon writ large)

The U.K. will then crash out on Nov 1st. No attempt is being made by Cummings to get a deal and in any case his contact finishes on Oct 31st.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:20:01

A hard right government Brexit party type government will be delivered

Iam64 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:27:10

I can't escape from the feeling that 'we're all doomed'

mcem Mon 02-Sep-19 08:37:44

Tangled webs have a tendency to unravel when the deceit is exposed!

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:48:09

One way it seems to me to begin to unravel the web, is for Corbyn to drop the insistence that he is leader of any caretaker government. That is what many can’t stomach, but if he bows out gracefully there is a chance that a caretaker government can be formed which will then guide the U.K. through the coming months without the chaos and economic disaster ensured by the Cummings government.

Iam64 Mon 02-Sep-19 08:59:50

Whitewave, I'm with you on the issue of the leader of any potential caretaker government. I know Jeremy Corbyn has a band of supporters but listen to any radio phone in/your neighbours and its impossible not to conclude he is unpopular with the majority of voters.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:02:54

I think what is becoming clear is that contrary to what Johnson indicated in his leadership bid, he has absolutely no idea for an alternative to the backstop nor seems bothered about re hashing the WA.

This isn’t about Brexit but getting a majority government to allow Johnson his longed for premiership.

Anniebach Mon 02-Sep-19 09:05:04

I too agree , a caretaker government but not Corbyn as leader

MaizieD Mon 02-Sep-19 09:06:32

I understood that Corbyn has dropped his insistence on being leader of a caretaker government.

Blair is advising not to push for a GE as that is exactly what Cummings wants in the expectation that tories will win handsomely. Why play Cumming's game? he reasons. But, of course, Blair is toxic...

I still think a fresh, clean, referendum would be best. There are too many issues involved in a G E to be able to judge with absolute clarity just what it is that people are voting for. This means that results can be spun to whatever people want to believe. Many people are still very cross that their 2017 vote for Labour was interpreted as being a pro brexit vote when in fact it was a pro LP social policy vote. At least with a referendum it's straightforwardly about a single issue.

So long as the campaign was clean I'd be happier to accept another Leave result.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:13:21

maize I think Blair is right.

A caretaker government could in theory then stay until the result of a clean referendum is known after which an election could take place.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:24:46

I do think though that if this is Cummings strategy it is pretty high risk, as if he does boot out the moderate Tories, many of the Tory voters are going to feel pretty miffed, and there is the possibility that many if the rebels will stand as independents and perhaps with the help of the remainers and the moderate wing of the Tory party, win.

I am beginning to wonder if this will indeed be the end of the Tory party that has existed until now?

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 09:33:37

I'm with you 100%, Maizie.

I would be prepared to accept the result of a new, cleanly fought referendum, whatever the outcome.

Whatever Leavers claim, I was prepared to accept the result of the original referendum. I thought it was a stupid idea and still do. Nevertheless, I accepted that it was a majority decision.

That was before I realised how corrupt the whole process had been and, more importantly, that nobody had any idea how any of my concerns could be implemented. I'm quite resilient and deal with whatever life throws at me ("Blitz" spirit in my DNA), but I don't see why I should, when there really aren't any "winners". Jobs will be lost, businesses will go bankrupt, bananas will be straight (or is it bendy?). A handful of people will get rich as a result of deregulation and "free trade".

If people still accept that it's OK for the country to be poorer and that there really is no answer to the Irish border issue and there's proper oversight of election spending and advertising, I'll go along with it.

Where have you read that Corbyn would be prepared to accept a different interim leader? If he were to step aside, I don't think we'd be having this conversation because I think a Labour Party with a popular leader would blow the Conservatives out of the water.

Yes, I think Tony Blair is right. It's such a shame he's so toxic because he does know a thing or two wink about winning elections.

Luckygirl Mon 02-Sep-19 09:37:29

I think that Boris is buttering up the eletorate with his spending promises (which are basically giving back some of the money that has been withheld from public services by this government for years) in order to tie his backbenchers in to supporting him - if they don't support him, then their electors will blame their sitting MP for them missing out.

It is a devious and sickening game that he is playing.

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 09:41:57

I find it quite amusing that Arron Banks is paying for a separate campaign to get people like Philip Hammond and Amber Rudd deselected by encouraging constituents to join the local Conservative Party and deselect them.

If Hammond has the whip withdrawn anyway, he won't need to be deselected. It could blow up in their faces, if people vote for the rebels as Independents.

One consolation from all this is that Cummings and Farage/Banks hate each other. During the referendum, it was an advantage that there were two "Leave" campaigns because each appealed to different leavers. They blamed each other when one stepped over the line. However, maybe people are a bit more savvy now (not hardcore leavers) and the different factions will destroy each other. Fingers crossed!

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 09:46:23

I agree with you, Luckygirl.

With the education spending, the areas which will benefit are mainly the wealthier, Tory areas. It's a shift of resources from the poorest areas to the richest ones. The biggest loser will be special needs.

Tories won't care about the fact that areas with solid Labour votes are not gaining from the education spending boost. As ever, they'll spin it as Labour councils whinging about not having enough money and using the poor results as an excuse to academise.

MaizieD Mon 02-Sep-19 10:00:23

Where have you read that Corbyn would be prepared to accept a different interim leader?

Regrettably, I can't remember, growstuff. I read so much stuff yesterday that I can't recall just which article it was in..If I come across it again I'll let you know.

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 10:05:23

Thank you smile. It would be really good news, if he has.

humptydumpty Mon 02-Sep-19 10:13:30

Although I don't recall reading that explicitly, I did wonder if that was why all anti-crash-out parties had agreed on a joint strategy,,.

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 10:34:45

I don't agree with what Philip Hammond did as Chancellor (most of the time). HOWEVER, if I were one of his Conservative-voting constituents, I think I'd be pretty miffed about some upstart coming along and trying to kick out the man I'd voted for for years. His constituency was marginally Remain.

I think in a General Election, I'd vote for Hammond as an Independent instead of an official Conservative candidate, most of whom seem to have been cloned.

The Conservatives are ahead in the polls. However, I wonder what difference it would make with another Labour leader (Starmer perhaps?) and how some of the seats with Independents will vote.

There is a very real prospect that the Conservatives would lose South Cambridgeshire, despite its history as a Tory stronghold. It voted 60.2% Remain, now has a LibDem council and shows as one of the areas with the highest percentage of constituents signing the "do not prorogue Parliament" petition. Companies have already lost contracts and funding as a result of Brexit. If Heidi Allen stands as LibDem, there's a realistic chance she'll win.

mostlyharmless Mon 02-Sep-19 10:38:08

Keir Starmer said on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday, that if Remainer parties couldn’t unite behind Corbyn as caretaker, they would rethink their strategy. Presumably that means find a more widely acceptable caretaker.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 10:40:51

Thanks mostly I knew I had heard/ read it somewhere.

Urmstongran Mon 02-Sep-19 11:30:15

Cummings is up against this:

MPs will try, yet again, this week. First they will seek an emergency debate under Parliament’s Standing Order Number 24. Then they will use the debate to amend Standing Order Number 14, which allows the Government to control the Commons timetable.

And then, having seized control of the order paper, they will legislate ordering the Prime Minister to reverse his policy.

They will instruct him to extend, with the EU’s agreement, the Article 50 deadline and prevent a no-deal Brexit on October 31.

varian Mon 02-Sep-19 11:34:27

Surely it is right for our PM to take instructions from parliament, not Cummings!

growstuff Mon 02-Sep-19 11:40:55

Nah! Cummings probably thought they'd use the time when parliament is suspended to book themselves a cheap, out-of-season holiday.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 02-Sep-19 11:44:26

ug Cummings isn’t up against anything. He is playing a game that he enjoys but is entirely a-moral. He has absolutely no care about the U.K.

He walks on 31 st October whatever the outcome.