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How brainless to sing the red flag.....

(117 Posts)
Luckygirl Tue 10-Sep-19 13:27:14 parliament!!

Do they not realise that this is exactly what will put people off voting labour? That song alone raises the fear that a new Tory government will emerge from an election. I despair.

We need some reasoned middle ground debate, and a few politicians with half a brain - I have given up hoping for integrity too.

Labaik Tue 10-Sep-19 14:49:31

I can't agree that brainpower is lacking, given that Johnson and Cummings are being outmanoeuvred at he moment...

humptydumpty Tue 10-Sep-19 14:52:05

I must be in the minority then, because to me that song is associated with the labour party - harking back to communism seems odd as the principal cultural reference.

Labaik Tue 10-Sep-19 14:54:48

Unfortunately anything the Labour Party says/does these days is misconstrued by the media; they have to be extra careful [and I'm saying that as a LibDem voter].

Beckett Tue 10-Sep-19 14:55:18

Perhaps it would have been better if they all chose to sing the National Anthem

Luckygirl Tue 10-Sep-19 14:55:29

I do think it is associated with far left-wing, communist views; and sending that signal out to the electorate will most assuredly lose them votes.

It is so sad to see the political system crumbling - British democracy has been held up as a beacon round the world. And now we have our very own Trump.

Anniebach Tue 10-Sep-19 14:57:43

How can .labour MP’s singing The Red Flag in Parliament be

Fiachna50 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:00:23

Id rather all these overpaid politicians were trying to sort this whole mess out. Rather than singing at all. So glad they all can sing, I see nothing in this whole damned mess to sing about!

Grandad1943 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:06:19

Anniebach Quote [ It was a disgrace ]End Quote

Anniebach, you have often claimed on this forum that you were a member of the Labour Party for over fifty years and during that period often attended the annual delegate conference.

In the above Anniebach, you will know that the red flag is always sung at the end of business on the concluding day. Everyone attending is expected to join in, with the words being displayed in recent years on the large screens set at both sides of the platform.

The singing of what is the "anthem of the Labour Movement in Britain" is nothing more than a symbolic and traditional act which takes place on that last day following presentations to those who are retiring from long years of service in the party and broader movement. That singing is as much a tribute to them as to the above-mentioned tradition and symbolism.

So, are you stating Anniebach that when you attended these conferences you never joined in the tributes to those revered members by singing the anthem with all the others in attendance?

I am not a member of the Labour Party but in years past have attended many Delegate Conferences speaking on workplace/industrial safety at fringe meetings. If I have been there on the final morning of the conference I have always gone into the main venue to see those presentations and join in the singing of the Red Flag as a tribute to those members which I always found very enjoyable, poignant and moving.

I also believe that with Parliament being forced into suspension by a dictatorial Prime Minister and his anarchist adviser, that was precisely the right time for that anthem to be sung in defence of the United Kingdoms parliamentary democracy.

Labaik Tue 10-Sep-19 15:13:43

The one's singing The Red Flag were the politicians [along with many from other parties] that did actually want to carry on working to sort out the crisis we're in so it seems wrong that the media should pick them out as troublemakers when they're trying to uphold democracy. They are being forced to not do the job they get paid for and shouldn't get the blame for it. But it was still unwise to sing it imo.

GracesGranMK3 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:18:51

Ah Grandad, I have a feeling you won't be listened to. This is one of those threads that is determined only to make people feel better about themselves because they are not "those" people. The will be no attempt to understand. No reasoning going on. Just an "our lots better than your lot" thread. Plus, perhaps, a little of "the world's going to hell in a handicart because people don't behave as we did". They don't want your reasoned augment, or your (or anyone else's) explanation. They just want to tell one another they are right.

Lessismore Tue 10-Sep-19 15:24:02

Dear me, I've just seen the footage....a rag tag bunch. All of them.

Anniebach Tue 10-Sep-19 15:31:01

I always sang The Red Flag at labour conferences and other
Labour Party meetings.

Parliament is for the country not just the Labour Party

Loislovesstewie Tue 10-Sep-19 15:34:10

I vote Labour and always have done; I sing the Red Flag too. I suspect that I am too left wing for many people who post on here and other sites I visit, but I don't consider any of this to be a hanging offence. You are entitled to vote any way you wish; that to me is democracy. I consider lots of things to be disgraceful, but singing the Red Flag is not one of them. If you want to sing Rule Britannia that is ok by me, so is Jerusalem ( although I am not religious) .Flower of Scotland? Fine by me. Danny Boy? Absolutely, love that one! And so on.

Why are you getting worked up by it?

Doodledog Tue 10-Sep-19 15:45:22

Parliament is for the country not just the Labour Party

Parliament used to be for the country. It is very difficult to see it as such nowadays, if a PM elected by a tiny number of people is willing to prorogue it at a time of national crisis.

humptydumpty Tue 10-Sep-19 15:47:52

Completely agree lois - and Bread of Heaven, Land of Hope and Glory, Scotland the Brave, When Irish Eyes Are Smiling!!

Luckygirl Tue 10-Sep-19 15:51:52

I have no problem about the song being sung at labour conferences, but seriously doubt the wisdom of singing it in parliament at this moment, when polarised parties are the stuff of nightmares and have given us a nutter for a PM.

I am no Tory supporter, nor Labour, but I would like to see some sort of political sense being exercised - the priority at the moment is to get rid of BJ and his cronies and to seek the middle ground and polite and reasoned debate to get us out of this mess. I think that if Labour aligns itself too closely with the hard left it will shoot itself in the foot.

One of the reasons we are in this mess is because of the absence of a credible opposition, which has always been the purpose of the party system. Labour have sadly lost their credibility and need to tread with care to get it back.

Grandad1943 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:52:26

Sussex born Quote [

To outsiders it is sung by the Communist party so not really the brightest of moves.

Grandad1943 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:54:06

Apologies for my above post, hit the post button in error before I actually stated anything. 🥴

Pantglas1 Tue 10-Sep-19 15:56:39

Well said loislovesstewie - whichever party you vote for is NOT a hanging offence although you’d think differently if you read some of the posts/threads.

paddyann Tue 10-Sep-19 16:07:21

Why on EARTH would they sing the "national anthem"? If Lizzie had any power she should have shown Boris the door instead of letting him behave like a spoilt child..if its not his way he'll take his ball and go home ...
I would not sing God Save the Queen if I was paid to,never have never will and I'm pleased my elected representative sung a song that means something to Scots instead of god save Lizzie .Lot of fuss about nothing ,the business of the day was done .

mcem Tue 10-Sep-19 16:15:50

Given all the shenanigans and dishonesty inflicted on all of us by BJ and co this was a relatively tame way to protest!
Unconventional - yes! Harm
'Scots wha' hae' was a good choice and I remember it being sung at the opening of Holyrood.
There is always a place (appropriate or not) for a burst of Welsh harmonies!
Very devious and inflammatory editing to include only the 'Red Flag' in the news bulletins!

mcem Tue 10-Sep-19 16:18:10

Unconventional- yes but harmful- no!
Haven't seen a chunk of text just disappear like that!

Anniebach Tue 10-Sep-19 16:18:26

It was a song with strong political links

Grandad1943 Tue 10-Sep-19 16:18:55

Sussexborn Quote [To outsiders it is sung by the Communist party so not really the brightest of moves. ] End Quote.

I believe it is the "international" that is sung by communist movements worldwide. In that, the Red Flag is unique in being the anthem of the British labour movement. However, I stand to be corrected if any forum member possesses alternative knowledge.

In regard to "outsiders" viewing the singing of the Red Flag as a communist cymbal, that may well be the case, but that anthem has always been at the very base of the British Labour movement and in singing it I feel that the members see it as part of their deep heritage with little interest in what anyone outside that culture may think.

In the above, I feel what was witnessed in the House of Commons last night was a spontaneous act aimed at the very "downtrodden looking" Tory MPs as they left the chamber.

It was a very appropriate act I feel in view of the circumstances that all the MPs were leaving the chamber under.

Anniebach Tue 10-Sep-19 16:24:44

It was inappropriate