Tory Party conference in Manchester

Jabberwok
... why in Gods name did the H of C substantially sign up for article 50 in the first place ..."

I have thought about that a lot, and will give you my own honest take on it:

Perhaps because off the back of that very divisive referendum, the best thing they felt they could do, with the country's best interests in mind, was to play the long game?

To see if the Government could actually come up with a deal that would genuinely be better for us than remaining in Europe?

The hope that the Government itself would put country first and backtrack if they genuinely believed that respecting the referendum result was bad for the country?

I've asked myself what I would have done in their position, and I think I might have acted that way, for those reasons, though who really knows!

Jabberwok in regard to your post @07:06 today, the vast majority of MPs in the House of Commons backed the signing of article fifty because they believed that the May government knew how they would take this country out of the EU "in an orderly manner" to use their own words.

Many will remember that during the referendum campaign it was stated that the European Union would "fall over backwards" to keep up trading with Britain. There was also the "they need us more than we need them" statement. The foregoing was capped by the now famous statement made by David Davis that "these will be the easiest negotiations ever concluded."

However, within weeks of article fifty being signed, it was being realised that this excuse for a government had no withdrawal plan whatsoever. Indeed, this government did not even have a grasp of the treaties and conditions that Britain was signed up to in its membership of the EU.

Therefore the European Union have not been able to conclude any "easy negotiations", and they have not "fallen over backwards" to sign any deals with Britain.

What our shambles of a government and the United Kingdoms totally incompetent negotiators did not realise was that the other twenty-seven member states believe in the aspirations of the European Union and in that have stood closely together in upholding the treaties and conditions that underpin the EU against all the British moaning and empty threats

So Jabberwok, the biggest deceit of all is to be found in the incompetence and lies that were told to the Electorate in and after the referendum campaign by the Leave leaders, and that incompetence and outright lies are still to be very much found in their actions even now.

Of course, none of the above will be spoken of at the Tory Party conference today or tomorrow.

Other speeches were only remarkable for their incoherence

Esther McVey appeared surprised to learn that houses were three-dimensional and were designed by architects using computers.

Grant Shapps rather thought the collapse of Thomas Cooke showed how prepared we were for a no deal brexit as we were showing the world how good we were at repatriation.

I wonder if he will be so enthusiastic when repatriating decrepit and sick elderly from the EU?

The Tory party members must be wondering what they’ve done to deserve this.

I can tell them

Boris Johnson - remember that little vote you made back in the summer?

With thanks to John Crace.

If you really wanted to experience some genuine lunacy you can do no better than attend some of the fringe meetings run by the ERG.

Here you get the full force of how the likes of Redwood and tin soldier Francois feel.

Redwood ranted about freeing the U.K. from its oppressor, saying that the lorry queues were all imaginary and the people of Calais were idiots.
We will dig for Britain he yelled, our gardens will grow our produced that will give the EU a bloody nose.

Mark Francois was his usual puce colour as he stood up. If the Brexit deal happens and it includes the words “The EU can go fuck itself, than I’ll be first in the queue to sign it”

The audience lapped it up.

There used to be a saying "empty vessels make the most noise" How accurate in view of some of the worthless and offensive posts on here

Whitewavemark2, contrary to some of the negative comments upthread, I love your posts which draw on a wide range of sources to support your arguments or just to keep us informed. They are almost always respectful towards other posters, too. Power to your elbow!

This, and other threads, would be the poorer if they contained only the personal opinions, which are only sometimes supported by evidence and reasoned arguments, of the posters.

How true it is that there are none so blind as those who will not see.

amagran

Thank you ?

Don’t worry.

Since I’ve been on GN we occasionally get these posters who come to merely insult and try to prevent the flow of conversation by their posts.

But I have learned

DO NOT FEED THE BEAST

they eventually give up and go away.

Last and least is Javid the new chancellor, who has got really excited over policies his predecessors announced. He was clearly not paying attention at the time, because he seemed to think that they were knew policies entirely thought up by himself.

At least Javid appeared with a new speech.

Did anyone see Shapps speech when he announced the collapse of Thomas Cooke?

Most of it had been lifted from the speech made by Failing Grayling when he announced the collapse of Monarch.
To use a speech by FG shows a desperation not witnessed before by parliament.

What is it about those people who seem to think we are such morons not to understand what they are up to?

John Crace, the depressive bleeding heart journo in the Guardian who is almost a deity there for his anti Tory articles. No thanks.

Seems Boris has a plan.

'This is the moment when the rubber hits the road,' Mr Johnson told BBC Breakfast. 'We do have a solution.'

The new plan appears to involve Northern Ireland following some EU regulations - but staying in the UK's customs jurisdiction.

To avoid infrastructure at the border checks would take place some distance away, and technology would be deployed to minimise friction.

Mr Johnson said this morning that the UK government had 'moved a long way', and was accepting that the 'people in Northern Ireland may be British but the cattle are Irish'.

30 days to go.

Johnson’s Government has been desperately trying to find a way around the Irish backstop, which they know none of the ERG or DUP will accept, meaning that any deal will fail in Parliament.

They have come up with the idea of what they are calling “customs clearance zones”.
The idea being that goods are checked and cleared at particular sites, and their movement then monitored by GPS.

However it appears that this idea, always supposing it is workable and there are serious questions over its viability, has not gone down well with the Irish government or business representatives in NI. SDLP leader said that any form of physical barrier poses a security and economic risk.

Angela McGowan director of CBI in NI. tweeted
Angela McGowan
@angela_mcgowan

Hard infrastructure in N Ireland at this stage of the negotiations? Such proposals are an absolute disgrace. Suggesting U.K. govt doesn’t take NI’s economy or peace process seriously!

The director of NI retail consortium said that these proposals show that Johnson’s government is not listening to business.

To come up with such a proposal at this stage of the negotiating process must indeed have Brussels banging its head against a brick wall.

It is quite unbelievable that Johnson would consider this to be remotely acceptable to anyone in both the Irelands.

Urmstongran, the Irish government has already dismissed the plan as "unworkable."

If you read what the British Government has put forward as a "suggestion" for solving the Irish border problem, it looks like something worked out on the back of the proverbial Fag Packet.

Another one bites the dust. They have not got a clue.

Link to a Sky News report on the story can be found here:-
news.sky.com/story/pm-to-present-eu-with-brexit-blueprint-but-ireland-dismiss-border-plan-11824192

Anyone see Leadsome’s speech?

Most people in the audience seemed to have lost the will to live prompting this tweet

“This party is no more! It has ceased to be! It's kicked the bucket. It's shuffled off it's mortal coil. Run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARTY!!"

Whitewave unusually, you make a good point. If there can be no deal and the electorate voted with a majority to leave, it seems to be a fait accompli. One point however, theERG and DUP constitute less than 25% of MPs. Have the rules relating to a commons vote changed?

Which posters are you talking about WWM2 ? Nearly every poster on this thread has been here for years and make contributions that are just as valid as any that you make.
Glad you are back with your own opinions though.
However, you are perhaps straining a bit too much to give the impression that hardly anyone attended the conference/ it’s all rubbish etc.
MP’s are flitting back and forth to Westminster as the need arises, there not being an agreed recess for the few days.
I spoke too soon...! I see you have now tweeted an uncredited
Source of a monty python skit. ?

Listening to the Johnson interview on radio 4 this morning, he ruled out what you have said upthread WWM2 in Ireland, so maybe somebody leaked some false information.
Given the leaks all round, that would be a clever thing to do.

lemon I’m surprised you have recovered so well after the “today” interview and Johnson’s comment about

“Women on top”

?????

Anyhoo....we shall see soon what is being proposed, by Thurs or Fri.
Hopefully there is a deal to be done, so that we can still leave at the end of this month.

To avoid infrastructure at the border checks would take place some distance away, and technology would be deployed to minimise friction.

It was never going to be a runner.

Nor will Johnson running round the heads of the Member States begging them to refuse an extension. The heads of the Member States are not, for the most part, stupid. Nor will they be divided.

The government is just taking the p and going through the motions. When their border proposal is rejected, as they know it will be, the government will just play the victim card, "We offered a perfectly good solution and the evil EU just refused to have anything to do with it".

It's just another strand in the strategy of whipping up anti-EU feeling. Of whipping up anti- anything feeling. They've already tried it with 'Parliament v The People' and dissing the Supreme Court judges.

It’s your mind WWM2.......?

Lemongrove whitewave's uncredited reference seems apposite for one who can only "parrot"

Apparently Julia Gillard is to address the conference.

Prince Andrew is in Australia and I offered to arrange a swap and was surprised to get some takers

Whitewave Strange how an ex-party can command more support than any other. Course, that is only the people's unacceptable opinion,, probably in the main the "lower orders" disparagingly dismissed in previous posts.

Keep up the tweets WWMk2, I for one am happy to read them and find them neat and straight to the point, which is, of course, the point of Twitter! As to the conference, the side shows are often the most interesting for there the most loony extreme section of the parties spout forth. This happens in all party conferences, not just the Tory one of course, but the essential difference is that this lunacy is being adopted as policy, and as for Francois' vulgarity, well, when his esteemed leader uses the expression 'Fuck business' what else can be expected.