Why are "Leavers" so angry?

Well said Jaycee5 ??

Joelsnan My MP recently asked the government to give her some idea of how much they would give to the NE to plug the gap left by the withdrawal of EU money. They wouldn't answer.

Grapefruitpip That was exactly the point I was making. There are good and bad people on each side. Clever and stupid people on both sides. Bigots and tolerant people on both sides.
I was challenged on that which is why I only responded about one side.
This is why it has been impossible to have rational debate. The spitefulness and bitterness just because people have a different point of view about belonging to a trading bloc.

Trisher
Yes I did read it.
How can anyone be so sure Brexit will be so damaging. The same people who said the economy would be flat on its back by now?
If you were listening to R4 this morning the chief economist stated that the economy is actually in growth, small yes, but when Germany is going into recession and other EU countries are not far behind it seems there are those in the wider world that have confidence in the UK.
With regard to the NE. What do you think will happen to the money that goes to the EU to come back to the NE (after admin charges have been deducted) will go?
It will stay in the UK and will be of greater value because it will be the gross amount without the deductions. The government already knows where current EU funding goes and will doubtless ensure support continues. Indeed as the funding will be handled in country there will be opportunity to apply it in a more bespoke manner rather than complying to the strict and cumbersome EU funding application criteria.

Jaycee, I use it in a very limited way, not to follow discussions. I don't really think it is terribly useful.
People are just firing off comments. It reminds me of the signs of the zodiac. How can anyone divide the whole of humanity into 12 categories.

How can we divide a population into 2 groups and then ascribe various traits to them?

Brilliant post joelsnan thank you for such a considered response.

Especially this all apprenticeships stopped when free movement was enabled for the eastern europeans. Why pay for training when you can import cheaper already trained staff? struck a cord.

Nail on head.

grapefruitpip Are you not on facebook? Follow any discussion about Brexit.

Joelsnan did you read the link?
All funding comes from taxes. But The North East was doing quite well. They are now faced with complete uncertainty. They will lose funding to the south and London. Can you explain to me exactly how this will assist "wealth equalisation"? Perhaps if you stopped concentrating on what has already been lost to other EU countries and looked at the cost of Brexit to the NE you might recognise the absolute disaster it will be and the poverty that will result.

No, to be fair you talked about people not being able to afford second homes in France.

growstuff
Did I mention anywhere about remainers being well off?

trisher
As we all know by now EU funding is taxes paid by the citizens of the nett contributors to the EU.
The vast majority of initiatives receiving EU monies have been recommended or scrutinised by the local government. The EU does not swoop in and dole out money where it thinks fit and there are very few organisations that can apply for direct funding.
I do think the nation has begun to understand the need for wealth equalisation and I understand the election of regional mayors may be paving the way to further devolution. The one thing that the Brexit issue has done is to raise the political and social awareness of many who formerly could not have given a hoot.
The amount of EU funding returned to the UK has been diminishing year on year as the ‘need’ has been redirected to the non contributing ‘poorer’ members. Actually it has been redirected to build up the industrial bases in these countries to supply cheap parts to the more affluent nations. We have moved further and further down the pecking order both in terms of funding and influence.

Ageism and academic snobbery is certainly rife amongst Remainers

Where?
Who?

BTW Thank you for your reply Joesnan. I really do agree with you. Nevertheless, I'm not convinced that the UK government will do anything for such communities.

I come from Merseyside. As a child, many people were employed in shipping, but that all went. Thatcher wanted Liverpool to wither away naturally. It was Heseltine who came to Liverpool and kickstarted some regeneration.

Places do change and it's really tough, but I do think that with decent planning and infrastructure, the damage can be mitigated. I'm just not at all confident that the Westminster government will do that and the Brexit Party most certainly won't.

Oh! How I wish I could afford a second home in France! I wish I could afford my own home in the UK, but I can't, which is why I'm forced to rent.

What's that about Remainers all being well off?

Joelsnan No idea where your mining village is but for those in the NE the future looks very bleak as they lose the EU funding which helped and are subjected to a government scheme which is uncertain, unaccounted for and less
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-funding-brexit_uk_5cfd4ea7e4b04e90f1cb299f

growstuff
As mentioned I have returned to the village of my birth a former mining village.
It is depressed having lost the swimming baths, cinema, tennis courts, running track etc. All if which were paid for by miners welfare.
When I lived here as a child there was a secondary school, this has been replaced by a mega school that kids now have to travel to. There was a band, choir, scouts, guides, Sally Army, St, Johns Ambulance and youth club, plus working mens clubs...All gone now.
With the hearts being ripped out of this and other former mining communities it has been difficult for the communities to find focus.
However I have noticed one major drawback within these communities this being that they cannot move forward from the concept of this being a former mining village though the pit closed more than 30 years ago. Whilst the village should be proud of its history its folk do need to move on, the majority having never worked down the pit.
We all know of industries that were the centre of the towns and villages that employed the majority of folk in these places. They were the glue that stuck communities together. They have gone and the jobs available now are mostly low pay, low skilled agency work with little job security and little or no job security.
I do not think EU offers an answer because work will always go to counties who offer poorer Ts and Cs, and where overheads are lower and profit margins higher. Germany will do everything to keep the poorer Ex USSR countries on side as they would act as a natural defence to Russia should tensions rise. Why would they encourage factories to relocate here, we look after our workers and offer no defence.
I feel that The restrictive trading practices of the EU reduces trade to the lowest common denominator i.e. cheapest, quickest for the highest return and this will not change whilst the economies of all member states differ so vastly, the highest recipients of funding being enslaved to the highest contributors.
The folk of these villages and other similar small towns are not daft, they saw their industries move out and if any industry did move in it was low wage low skill which perfectly suited the many of the eastern european citizen who came to work in these industries.
You must recognise that just about all apprenticeships stopped when free movement was enabled for the eastern europeans. Why pay for training when you can import cheaper already trained staff? These people see their children destined for a life of low pay, insecure semi skilled work. Even many of those who go to university do not fare much better.
These people cannot afford second homes in France and the lack of multiple language skills means free movement for work is unavailable to them so consider the EU has not worked for them or their families and they are prepared to take a leap of faith.

trisher I can't name them but the Guardian btl comments about the Chinese when they came here when the pound dropped were about as racist as you can get.
Remainers have said things like 'what Brex**itters don't understand is that if we don't take people from Europe, we will have to take them from Pakistan.
There are many other examples but I don't record them.
There are many other ways to be obnoxious besides racism. Ageism and academic snobbery is certainly rife amongst Remainers. Simply talking down to people with a presumption of superiority is pretty obnoxious.
Richard Branson rapacious corporatist behaviour is pretty obnoxious.
People are individuals and should be judged as individuals.

Is that some sort of weird joke Firecracker? I suppose it must be.

there are obnoxious people on both sides. would you like to name some racist Remainers Jaycee5

The point is that a lot has been posted about how angry and violent Remainers are and yet the real violence and racism which is present in some sections of the leave supporters is apparentlly not real. Well it is very real. And please note this man is not alone he had supporters in the gallery cheering him on. Leavers have a real responsibility to combat and attack this racism yet all they are doing is accusing Remainers.

I agree are all Corbyn fans supporters of Hamas.

trisher why would Labour Leave voters be linked to Tommy Robinson?
He probably eats breakfast. Do you like having that connection with him?
We all go into the ballot box alone. Brexit should have been a cross party issue and there are obnoxious people on both sides.
How do you feel about being connection to Goldman Sachs? Presumably nothing because you aren't. You just vote the same way.

That wasn't actually the main message I took away from the report, although it was a contributory factor.

I really do understand that people have lost the community spirit which mining provided. Mining provided real jobs, not only down the pits, but engineering and transport jobs, etc. Mining is dirty, dangerous work and I wouldn't want it to return. The Nottinghamshire coalface thought it would be saved from Thatcher's cuts, so maybe that contributes to why people feel so disillusioned.

That kind of change is never easy to manage, although it's quite interesting that Germany managed it much better when a policy decision was made to shut down the pits in the Ruhr.

The impression I had from the report was that people are yearning for a sense of community and that their voices aren't being heard in Westminster. Visible Polish shops maybe exacerbates that feeling, but it's also true that well-loved high street shops have disappeared because people's shopping habits have changed.

I fear that Brexit won't provide the solutions for which people are searching, unless there's a real change in the attitude towards listening to local people and long term planning. That, to me, would really be what the "will of the people" should be all about. I'm afraid vague promises of going it alone and releasing creativity (or whatever) don't cut it for me. I want to see some concrete ideas. People have had three years to think of some, but I haven't seen any.

I read the Mansfield study, too.

Minor point, I know, but the lead researcher was a 'she', not a 'he'.

I thought it was interesting that the main reason for voting Leave was immigration, despite the fact that immigration levels are very low in Mansfield. However, because of the shops they've opened to sell foodstuffs which are familiar to them they have a very visible presence in the town. (The shops reminded me of the shop dedicated to selling British food I saw in Bayeux)

Tom Johnston, the cartoonist, is British. Maybe he just can't spell.