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What happens next?

(35 Posts)
DidoLaMents Fri 27-Sep-19 09:50:35

The latest likely threat to the nation we are told, is violent, civil unrest if we are asked again if we want to leave the EU. Leavers and Remainers both can claim to have the moral high ground; leavers vote was 2% more; Remainers that the result was based on lies. But in truth 50% voted leave; 50% voted remain. Because of that do you think civil unrest is likely in the event of all scenarios : Leave, Revoke, Referendum? If you think it is, is it worth it to get the result you want? If you think it’s not, why not? Who will suffer most? And how do we pick up the pieces? Either way, large sections of the people will be angry, hurt and disappointed. Please try not to give the ‘take back control’ answers; because it’s simple rhetoric, I for one don't know what it means; it is even more meaningless if we face violence on the streets and fearful going into our cities. I genuinely want to know what faces us as a divided people.

Pantglas2 Fri 27-Sep-19 09:56:32

I too am wary of what’s going to happen next. I know of so many people on both sides who are venting their spleen angrily threatening all sorts, to the point where every conversation gets turned into a Brexit row.

notentirelyallhere Fri 27-Sep-19 10:21:03

I think it's going to take a generation to clear the anger and division. In the short term, I think there will be violence on the streets and I am sure the government have prepared for that. Heavy prison sentences will be handed out aka the 2011 riots and then we'll settle down to simmering while our standard of living plummets, food shortages abound, all sorts of unthought of problems will emerge and it will be blamed on the EU!!

notentirelyallhere Fri 27-Sep-19 10:35:34

La, la, la, no need to worry, unicorns and magic wands and fairies will appear (p.s. I'm glad I'm not on any kind of medication!). From the Guardian this morning, not the sort of thing you'd find in the Telegraph/Express/Mail who believe in fairies etc.

"Ministers will not know whether there are enough medicines, medical supplies or freight capacity to support the NHS if the UK leaves the EU without a deal next month, Whitehall’s spending watchdog has found.

With just five weeks to Britain’s scheduled withdrawal on 31 October, the National Audit Office (NAO) said there were still risks, with the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) still to do a “significant amount” of work .

In a critical report, the government’s “reasonable worst case” assumption is that the flow of goods across the Channel could be reduced to 40-60% of current levels on day one. Auditors said the data available did not show that the department was ready, or would be ready, if the UK were to leave the EU on the planned date.

Meg Hillier, the chair of the public accounts committee, said the report was deeply concerning and could result in the “gravest of consequences”.

Auditors examined the supply and transport of 7,000 medicines that come to the UK either from or via the EU as well as at least 450,000 different medical devices available on the NHS, most of which come to the UK through ports on the Channel.

The report said additional freight capacity chartered by the government for shipping priority goods across the Channel may not be fully available until the end of November, a month after the UK is scheduled to leave."

DidoLaMents Fri 27-Sep-19 11:28:38

notentirelyallthere and pantglas2 thx for your contribution. You mentioned the Guardian and found this article that is worrying, especially cos it’s Dom Cummings who is asking for it?! I googled User data and a lot came up about govt requests inc FB, WhatsApp?

jura2 Fri 27-Sep-19 11:56:49

Does anyone understand and can put into words- what was hinted at last night on Question Time- and that Cleverly tried very hard not to answer.

Re Johnson stating he can both 'obey the law' and at the same time, crash us out without a Deal? As many journalists have pointed out- the two do not tally. So what has he got up his sleeve. Someone on QT mentionned abiding by Benn Act put somehow postponing it until after we have left ??????

Help, please.

notentirelyallhere Fri 27-Sep-19 12:27:26

DidoLaMents, thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that before. Not quite sure what point you want to make with it. For me it seems par for the course of where we're going, i.e. towards a Fascist state. Certainly, the gathering and use of data, including personalised data, is now beyond the average citizen's knowledge is my guess.

There's an interesting book about what has happened in the social media world/with data called Everybody Lies: what the Internet can tell us about who we really are. A lot of it is about the American elections but it's relevant to the UK too.

DidoLaMents Fri 27-Sep-19 12:46:26

Thx notentirely... I suppose the point I was making was after I’d read another post about language used by both sides and one regular comment is unelected EU Bureaucrats. Here we are with an advisor to BJ, Dom Cummings instructing govt departments directly to disclose all our user data? He is most certainly unelected. This the man who dismissed a member of staff from a minister’s team without the authority and instructed a security police detail to escort her from the premises. I’m not sure I’d trust this man with the Downing Street cat let alone my user data!!

Keeper1 Mon 30-Sep-19 13:49:43

I voted remain but there a point I am not clear on, so apologies please don’t jump on me.

Parliament have ruled that to leave with no deal cannot happen, however what about the EU they have a leave date of 31st October and have stated that no further extension would be forthcoming so will they just regard us as having left come 31st they are not bound by our Parliament?

humptydumpty Mon 30-Sep-19 13:51:29

Do you have a link to the statement that they will not extend, Keeper1?

Keeper1 Tue 01-Oct-19 19:31:22

Sorry for the tardy reply Humpty no link just listening to radio 4 OM my drive into work. I believe is was Macron who said there would be no more extensions? It got me thinking on my drive our laws are not their laws and I wondered if they decide that as from 31st we are out what can we do about it?

Grandad1943 Tue 01-Oct-19 19:53:48

If the European Union decided they will not grant Britain an extension of article fifty beyond October 31st there would be nothing this nation could do about that decision, we would be out.

However, with one in three British manufacturing companies relocating into Europe and their suppliers relocating with them, I believe that the twenty-seven European member states may well decide it is in their interests to keep all the uncertainty in Britain going.

In the financial service sector, Billions of pounds are being moved out of Britain each week at present, which is another reason Europe may feel the present situation is playing to their advantage.

Media links to above:-

varian Tue 01-Oct-19 19:57:20

We could still Revoke Article 50, any time when we have not left the EU. No permission required from the EU.

Grandad1943 Tue 01-Oct-19 20:36:35

varian, revoking article fifty is not going to happen while the Tory Party is in government.

Jo Swinson and the rest of the Liberal Democrats will have to join the Labour Party and the SNP in support of a Temporary Unity government to witness any chance of article fifty being revoked.

In short, Jo Swinson needs to get off her high horse and join the real world if she wishes to see the above and the second referendum that you so long stated you wished to see come about.

paddyann Tue 01-Oct-19 20:39:18

no help from Swinson who says she wont back a vote of no confidence or any attempt to put Corbyn in on a temporary basis ..she wont join a coalition with Labour or the SNP ...only with the Tories..Not quite the saviour thought she was varian

paddyann Tue 01-Oct-19 20:42:52

I'll assume you ahdn't seen her voting record and the fact she voted with the tories even more than Mogg did !!

Grandad1943 Tue 01-Oct-19 21:15:05

paddyann, I agree, I do not think also that Jo Swindon wishes to see Johnsons government brought down.

Her and the Lib Dems are the weak link in the Rebel Alliance.

MaizieD Tue 01-Oct-19 21:23:21

She's called Jo Swinson and I cannot for the life of me see why she wouldn't want to see Johnson's government brought down.

Grandad1943 Tue 01-Oct-19 21:41:00

MaizieD, I feel Jo Swinson does not want to see the Johnson government brought down at present for what is known as self promotion.

I believe that Swinson will be prepared to see the above come about if she sees there is a large advantage to her in such an event.

What she has to realise is that the Lib Dems are not the largest opposition party in the House of Commons. When she does the Rebel Alliance in Parliament will most definitely move forward.

Again, sadly I feel that Swinson is the weak link in that alliance.

varian Tue 01-Oct-19 22:31:45

Jo Swinson has pointed out that Corbyn is very unlikely to win support from Tory and Labour rebels and independents The numbers for Corbyn, who is a problematic figurs, do not add up. It would be much better to unite round a respected senior MP such as Margaret Beckett, Harriet Harman or Ken Clarke.

Grandad1943 Tue 01-Oct-19 23:01:01

Varian, any vote of no confidence will not now take place prior to the 15th of October. That is to ensure that Johnson carries out the requirements of the Benn act in requesting an extension to article fifty or secures a withdrawal agreement acceptable to parliament.

Should Johnson fail in either of the above Corbyn will place a vote of no confidence in johnsons government which would undoubtedly be carried. However, Johnson would still have two weeks to try an set up a minority government acceptable to parliament, which would undoubtedly fail.

The Monarch would then call the leader of the opposition to the Palace and ask him to try and form a government but by that time Britain may well be within one or two days of crashing out of the EU with no deal.

So, it would be for the Lib Dems and some others in the House of Commons to either get behind Corbyn in very quickly setting up a temporary government and then prevent the UK no deal brexit or be responsible for Britain crashing out of the European Union in economically disastrous circumstances.

The decision would be theirs, the country first or stupid argument.

absthame Tue 01-Oct-19 23:16:39

Varian I agree. The opposition parties can only win if they have the support of most of tHe Tory rebels and that will not happen if the alliance is led by Corbyn or one of his clique. On the other hand if a more acceptable person was selected as the PM the alliance could hold together well into the new year making a people's vote a distinct possibility before a general election.

varian Tue 01-Oct-19 23:19:22

I do not think it is possible to predict what might happen next.

paddyann Wed 02-Oct-19 00:25:00

well the inner council of the court of session is sitting on the 4th of October with a date for the hearing on the 8th.They can either issue an arrest warrant for Johnson ....if he insists on leaving with no deal OR send the letter of extension for him.Scottish law .Like it or lump it they have the power to do either or both those things

Davidhs Wed 02-Oct-19 08:05:18

Grandad1943 has got the likely progression IF there is no deal, nobody wants that to happen. The MPs are still going to be the same after 31st October a GE is going to be a month away and no Brexit solution in view.

It’s highly likely that an extension will be vetoed by someone in EU, so it is highly likely that the EU will force no deal. For them no deal is better than a bad deal, so faced with that MPs are more likely to accept a deal.

Before or after October 31st there has got to be a deal, if that has to be dragged out with each commodity and service over 5 yrs so be it. What happens to the Irish border then, the Tories don’t really care about NI, only their own dogma.