A broken country?

lemon 'with immigrants from very different countries from ours, with maybe different goals in mind.' - do you think immigrants from the EU have 'different goals in mind' - what are those?

It depends entirely on the country and ethos of where they are from doesn’t it?

Nothing stays the same in life.

Hmm - I think that, looking globally, we are increasingly looking at a ‘post-democracy’ and ‘post-consumerist’ world. Neither democracy or consumerism are sustainable with our growing global population, growing demands on and competition for diminishing planetary resources and the damage we have so unthinkingly done to our environment. I have no idea what ‘new order’ will emerge but emerge it will by one means or another ...

I make no value judgement on this - but you are aware that as our Allies in the EU will no longer protect our borders rigorously and at time, very harsly, 24/7 - and because when desperate for Deals, far away countries will demand large numbers of Visas in exchange for any deal/s - and at the same time, our well established EU workers in the UK leave - the balance will change vastly. No? Is that what you wish?

You are determined jura2 to view the OP’s question as entirely Brexit related when it isn’t, or may be, but only in part.
I realise that you are furious that the UK voted to leave the EU but there are many threads already discussing this subject.
I won’t be replying to any more questions from you on this.

Lemon ''It depends entirely on the country and ethos of where they are from doesn’t it?'' - well yes, exactly. So please tell us which EU country has 'very different goals in mind'' - and which goals they have that contradict our own?

You say I am furious - but I'd say I am passionately sorry to see the country I fell in love with, in pre EU days- and where I have lived all my adult life- because of this.

And yes, perhaps I do want to go back- to that country I fell in love with

A compassionate and tolerant Great Britain. And inclusive and creative Great Britain. An outward looking, respectful and dignified Great Britain. A progressive and fair Great Britain.

It is indeed time to reclaim decent Great British values. Some things should stay the same. This thread is about a 'broken' Britain - and yes, I do think it started with Mrs Thatcher - but Brexit is breaking it in a way even she could not have anticipated. Pretending it is not related is just nonsense.

(adapted from a Tweet I saw today).

“A compassionate and tolerant Great Britain. And inclusive and creative Great Britain. An outward looking, respectful and dignified Great Britain. A progressive and fair Great Britain.”

Utopia, if the U.K. was running a large budget surplus we could make strides in that direction, who’s is going to lend us money on compassionate grounds to achieve it.

The right-wing tabloids which are owned by billionaire tax dodgers have so much to answer for. They have a poisonous influence on their readers.

Just listen to this 21 year old factory worker tell how he cannot have a reasoned debate with his co-workers because they get their opinions formed, and reinforced daily by the lies and propaganda in The Sun, Daily Mail, etc.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/henry-factory-worker-on-lbc-the-sun-and-daily-mail-1-6311742

What do you mean by a budget surplus David? A balance of payments surplus or a budget deficit?

Ooops! I meant "a budget surplus".

Not just factory workers it impossible to get any reasoned argument from any leavers, they just want out of EU and to hell with the consequences.

All the EU citizens I know have very similar goals to the average Brit. They want somewhere safe to live, food in their stomachs, the opportunity to have a bit of a laugh and maybe sex. They want to feel they lead useful lives, have a bit of money to buy themselves and their families a few treats …

How are they different?

I agree David. In over three years, I'm still waiting for a reasoned argument. Even toddlers don't stick to their guns about something they don't fully understand for quite so long.

Most of us are, like it or not, looking out for ourselves

Not all though, Thank God.

growstuff of course everyone wants the things you mention but those things have nothing to do with the goals mentioned by the OP. I suggest you read the OP carefully.

I really don't understand why people who leave decision making to others think they have the right to vote for change such as Brexit.

Please, please, please could I vote to make myself healthy and wealthy and get somebody else to sort it? I'm sure I could get enough people to vote for my well-being if they're not responsible for how it could be achieved.

How patronising lemongrove. I read the OP very carefully and I still think most people (whether immigrant or not) just want peaceful lives with not too much aggro.

I actually don't agree with the OP anyway because I don't think all the people in a country have ever had common goals. I certainly remember my grandparents thinking the "working classes" didn't deserve handouts and they never used the NHS because they thought it was for "poor people". They grumbled very loudly about "socialists" and paying more taxes. I think they'd have fainted if they'd ever had to communicate with somebody with brown or black skin or if any of their family had turned out to be gay or had a child out of wedlock.

Can anyone tell me when we have ever been

A compassionate and tolerant Great Britain. And inclusive and creative Great Britain. An outward looking, respectful and dignified Great Britain. A progressive and fair Great Britain.

Not in my lifetime.

I don't honestly think that the fact that there are more people in any country affects achieving common goals.

The fact that these are difficult to achieve today, is, I believe, caused very largely by the fact that political parties don't seem to state their goals very clearly and irrespective of which country you look at and which political party, none seem capable of actually doing once they are in office they things they promised in their election campaigns. This results in voters rightly feeling disappointed and perhaps deciding to vote for a different party in the next election.

Universities no longer apparently see it as part of their role to influence public opinion regarding ethical and moral views. Newspapers and magazines publish what they think will sell large issues, rather than adhering to an editorial line of thinking and at least attempting to report the news reliably.

All these factors and many others make it difficult to have common goals.

I agree that the world we grew up in contained many hide-bound or bigoted people who never heard any other point of view on politics, religion, racial questions etc than their own.

I certainly wouldn't want to see a return to that, but surely it should be possible for political and other organizations to state their aims clearly.

Everything is emotional, the usual response from leavers is “we don’t want to be ruled by foreigners”, “ this is all their fault,” all sorts of aspirations, no hard ways we would benefit. “We will make Britain great again” well sorry guys much of our former glory has been flogged off to foreigners already.
If we are going to make the U.K. a great trading and manufacturing power there has got to be a quantum leap in public attitude

Actually when I read about the state of some other countries I feel okay about ours! I’m happy living here anyway.
?

You are only hearing the few leavers that the press trawl for soundbites from davidhs and not the vast majority.
Vilifying leavers has become a boring pastime for some on GN.

I think we have perhaps brought our children up to be lot more savvy than we perhaps were. Many people in the 50's and 60's settle for less but then again seem to have more.