Am I the only one

Have those who want to remain in the EU actually thought about what it is going to mean now? I am just wondering.

Aprilrose, very good post.

Incidentally, it’s already gone belly up in Greece. I’ve spoken to a fair few Greeks, I know what they’re saying, and it’s not good. It’s on the way to belly up in Spain, Portugal, and Italy. The way the Germans run the economy suits them, but it doesn’t necessarily suit 26 other states. And now there are murmurings about the German economy too.

We are all sick of hearing about Brexit......the reason? Because nothing is done, it just rolls on and on, a wagon full of arguing politicians pulled by a weary old horse.
We need a GE right now.

Germany is officially in recession - announced this morning.

Yes, we do Lemon. A GE is needed but the remainers are blocking it.

What’s blocking a GE is the FTP Act seen as a jolly wheeze by the Coalition Government. Amazing what come back to bite you, isn’t it?

Yes it is Suzie, but Parliament blocked the possibility of a GE when it arose. They voted against it. So remainers are blocking a GE.

I just can't see what a GE is going to solve. There is no clarity on what either Labour collectively or Conservatives collectively will do about Brexit because they can't agree amongst themselves, but Brexit will nevertheless be the overriding issue.

A second referendum or 'People's Vote' on the other hand will provide whoever wins a subsequent general election with absolute clarity on where the electorate now stand on Brexit deals or remaining in the EU. A GE would then allow the parties to explain to the electorate how they would deliver the current 'will of the people' and the vast range of other issues facing the country.

Also, if there was a peoples vote on a deal that deal should be fully scrutinised and fact checked and explained to the voters in great detail with sensationalised lying headlines in the gutter press banned for the duration....

Comments as I read through:

Why snide comment when I say I am happy to give my views over and over? Of course I am if someone asks, I have nothing to hide. Shame leavers are not prepared to be so open.

My Dil has never paid a healthcare surcharge, how does that work?

Fluctuation in currency rates is normal but the 20% drop in the £ is directly attributable to the vote in 2016. Even UG cannot argue with that surely?

I doubt anyone deciding to move to an EU was given any warning that this would happen. Too much 'I'm all right Jackery' and 'sod the unfortunate' for me.

Lily do you think many couples hold opposing views? I'm not sure sure because I and my DC married intelligent people who share our moral values so of course think the same about the effect Brexit will have on the UK, especially the poor.

The provisions of the FTP Act are stopping a GE which was wanted by BJ just to suit his own best interests. Three cheers for this Act.

Nonnie, are you saying those who didn’t vote remain are unintelligent? That is certainly what comes across from your post.

April I have, have you? Still waiting optimistically for you to tell me three ways you and your family will be better off it we leave the EU. I will remain hopeful.

maddy you really cannot blame the EU for what individual countries do, that really is so wrong.

I will explain to those who don't get it, the GE is being blocked because the opposition does not trust BJ to use a GE to drag us out of the EU with no deal. Simple.

Amagran Tue 22-Oct-19 10:37:16 couldn't have put it better.

There is going to be a backlash there wil be no winners which everway you voted
Our youth are ill equiped for hard graft.
Overindulgence
The labour party is not as it was with hard working decision makers its almost become
A product of its success
The state of our politicals as our decision makers has a lot wanting
In saying this how I admire the sate of democracy you have a right to vote and stand by your vote
You should not feel the need to justify.
Majority of the world are not in this position.
Im sick of the lack of moving ahead,the lack of planning for the future the lack of direct decisive thoughts and action.
Even I look at my children and feel sad at times sad that they are reliant on so many things .
Refused to have washing machine on for a couple of months taught them to use their hands to wash I was sick of the throw things into the machine whilst they are not even dirty.
What im trying to say is that now this has hit the fan.Our youth are the ones that have to readjust and think about how they can fashion out the future.
Im not a politician but have an interest in the future and the impact it has on our generation

I think you are quite right ayokunmil, there will be backlash. There will be a double backlash. There will be a backlash from leavers whose vote has been ingored and I think many remainers underestimate that but I also think that there will be a backlash from the EU.

In fact they have said as much. They will make this country pay for having dared to vote leave and they will not discriminate between leavers and remainers in the economic sanctions they will employ, the way in which they will ensure we are completely swamped by free movement across the EU and the way in which we will be tied to their political union.

We will also be subject to the back wash when the EU economy goes belly up and it is on its way. If anyone thought the last austerity was bad they will see far worse when the EU collapses. I am not fear mongering. Its just a matter of time.

April I have, have you? Still waiting optimistically for you to tell me three ways you and your family will be better off it we leave the EU

1) I will have a job.
2) I will be able to pay my bills and that will mean that I will keep a roof over the head of my family
3) I will make it to pension age and then I will be assured of some income for the future.

I have other " hopes" but you asked for what I would actually get.

A second referendum or 'People's Vote' on the other hand will provide whoever wins a subsequent general election with absolute clarity

No it will not. A peoples vote, ie, another referendum will only be advisory as remainers keep telling us about the last one. It will be as open to dispute as remainers have made the last referendum.

Do you think that leave voters will not have learned from the tactics of remain supporters in all of this?

We need a GE. That will clear parliament or return a bunch of remainers. Either way, it is not advisory. However, we cannot have a GE because we have an FTP. Too many MP's are afraid a GE will cost them their jobs . Everyone wants job security.

Nonnie Some info on the healthcare surcharge …

www.gov.uk/government/news/increase-to-immigration-health-surcharge-gives-nhs-extra-funding

prilrose Tue 22-Oct-19 12:49:34

I think it would be more credible if you explained why

1 you would have a job if we leave and not if we don't
2 Why you think you will be better able to pay your bills because we all know things will become more expensive and GDP will be lower than it would have been

and

3 Why you will reach pension age when you wouldn't if we stay. Incidentally some research by Mercer which I read today gave the top 10 countries with the best pensions. Netherlands was top, UK didn't make the list. I think others may be able to give you more information about how much lower our pensions are than the rest of the EU. Of course this is just of interest as our membership of the EU has no effect on our pensions. Of course with so many of us living a longer life and GDP going down our pensions are not going to improve. The value of the £ going down and low interest rates also means pension funds will not do as well as they could.

There will be no 'backlash' from the EU, they will simply look after their own interests as will all the countries we try to get deals with. That is to be expected and is the right thing to do.

If we have another referendum there will be far less backlash in UK than if a deal goes through without one. We need to know what people really want and there is only one way to do it.

grow thanks for that, when did it start? How do they police it? Thinking back about 15 years we had foreign students staying with us (they even looked it) and we took one to A & E and no one asked for ID or any proof of entitlement. No one has asked my friend to pay, they even have an NHS dentist. Seems system is not working! However, it is not a lot to pay is it?

*Aprilrose" The world is getting smaller on a daily basis. The most powerful organisations are the multinational corporations who manage to pay less tax because they are able to make use of the various tax havens.

Whilst during the 19th century Britain controlled the largest empire in the world we are no longer in that position and we can never get back to that. We are now the 5th/6th richest country, possibly soon to be 7th. However, much of the wealth has disappeared off shore. When the UK is rated by GDP per capita we are 23rd in the list, below most of the other European countries, including France and Germany.

As as been said in several threads, new EU rules that affect the taxation of multinationals and tax havens are operational from next January and that is why Johnson is in such a rush to exit on 31 October.

I keep repeating that in all my conversations with friends and they don't know about these rules changes- I can see the realisation dawning as I explain. So the JRM's of this world want out before his millions overseas become liable for scrutiny and why shouldn't it? The same with the companies like Amazon who have avoided paying the right level of tax in the UK, but their workers, whose labour keeps the company going, and customers pay their taxes.

Nonnie
And yet another snide dig at the thicko's who voted to leave.
Carry on, I'm now finding it quite amusing that people are getting so angry over something, which, in the big scheme of things doesn't matter a diddly squat.

BTW. Why don't you ask Callistemon what she thinks of her husband who voted leave. I think you might learn something.
On second thoughts, scrub that last sentence.

Ginny42
I don't wish to tell my Grandmother how to suck eggs but are you aware that it was Jean Claude Juncker who set up Amazons very generous tax avoidance plan when he was Prime Minister of Luxembourg.

Of course he did Petra and Ginny. He’s as bent as a nine bob note. And to think that Luxembourg are one of the countries who receive a massive amount more than they put in. You couldn’t make it up!