Am I the only one

I realise that Labaik, but we’d be making progress. At the moment we’re paralysed and going nowhere. We need to go somewhere, a general election, ratify the bill or whatever. We’re simply stuck, going absolutely nowhere.

I find it sad too Labaik but quite honestly I don’t think it’s going to happen - they would only be wanting to return if there was No Deal Brexit. If there’s a deal they’ll be fine they say. Another good reason to vote for a deal!

But most of them didn't ask for this [and probably weren't allowed a vote either]….and yet other people that won't be affected can just inflict it upon them.

All the MPs who voted against BJ's deal want is to know the detail. The document is over 100 pages and he wanted them to put it through on the nod. They want to know what exactly they are voting for. Surely no one can argue with that?

Apologies for not having read all the previous posts but no matter how bored we all are with hearing about Brexit this should not make us agree to any old deal just to silence MPs. If we are leaving the EU we need to get the best deal we can to protect our economy, jobs and the environment.

As I recall, the Leavers' campaign slogan was "Take Back Control". That is precisely what Parliament are doing so they should be pleased! MPs are just doing their job, which is to scrutinise Government policy and proposals, including policy and proposals for Brexit. The fact that some MPs have lost the whip to vote against a No Deal shows that they are even willing to put country before party and their own jobs!

It is amazing that anyone believes what the PM says after his meaningless"Die in a Ditch" promise if he had to send a letter requesting an extension, which he has done. He behaves like a petulant child when he doesn't get his own way and his threats to ignore the rule of law are bringing the office of PM into disrepute.

As for the soundbyte "Get Brexit done" by voting for his deal, that would only be correct if there was a No Deal as we would leave the EU immediately. All that voting his deal through will do is move us on to the next stage of the process, which is to negotiate a trade deal during the transition period which can run until the end of 2020. So we will be hearing plenty more about Brexit in the future.

Good post....

With respect Labaik we all voted as U.K. citizens because we LIVE here! A referendum in THIS country was called.

If people CHOSE to live abroad then it’s understandable that they now feel disenfranchised over Brexit but to quote the EU ‘they cannot cherry pick’.

But don't a lot of them [I'm thinking of those that have lived abroad for15 + years] still pay taxes to this country and, in some cases have had their pensions decimated...and then weren't allowed to vote.

Other EU countries should give commitments to British families who now live there, just as we are doing for EU nationals living here.If they won’t do, that’s not our concern.
I wouldn't want to continue living in that particular EU country if the government took that tack and would return asap.

We just go round and round these issues until we are dizzy. This was on another thread with jura2 who was terribly upset about it all.

If you live permanently in another country for FIFTEEN YEARS it’s surely fair not to expect a vote in the country you chose to leave which is why legislation backs up this viewpoint.

The ex pats I know (quite a few) who have retired out there for that length of time pay their tax to the SPANISH government as anyone would have to if they spend more than 183 days in one country other than the U.K.

Nothing stays the same in life. The wheel turns. I agree, it’s upsetting for some (but fine if it’s not No Deal Brexit, so fingers crossed for them!). Life isn’t fair as we know. It never was.

But they moved there with no idea that this scenario was likely to play out in the future. So, you vote for something that could badly affect a lot of people's lives and your take on it is 'well, life's unfair, isn't it'.

If they love living in that particular country so much, then they will do their best to stay there.What a shame that those EU countries couldn’t do for Brits ( or rather wouldn’t!) what we are doing for their citizens here.Not a bad country at all are we?!
In the event, they may well do the same, nothing is settled as yet and they are staying their hands on it until we leave the EU it seems.
Nothing in life stays the same.

Quote by Urmstongran:

Nothing stays the same in life. The wheel turns. I agree, it’s upsetting for some (but fine if it’s not No Deal Brexit, so fingers crossed for them!). Life isn’t fair as we know. It never was.

This confuses me. I agree that nothing stays the same. All life is in a constant state of flux. So why do so many people who voted to leave the EU talk about returning to some kind of Britain and British values before the country joined the EU? In some cases, they've even been blatant that includes fewer brown and black faces and foreign languages in our streets.

The world does indeed not stay the same, so why don't people just get used to it and adapt rather than trying to return to some kind of mythical kingdom?

What exactly do you mean lemongrove? As far as I can see, the biggest problem for many is healthcare, the form of which isn't (and never has been) dictated by the EU. I expect you're aware that all immigrants to the UK, even those with settled status or with a legitimate visa, have to pay a healthcare surcharge. Some countries are already offering to treat UK citizens more generously than the UK is treating their citizens.

Good post Ramblingrose

You are determined to be obtuse Labaik so I’m finding it difficult to debate this with you.

Let me try again.

The government of the day legislated the 15 year cut off. Our friends who live in Spain left 23y ago and they realised that they wouldn’t have any vote here in the UK after 15y.

When you think about it, it’s not dissimilar to the Scottish referendum. My father is Scottish. His family (he inherited it in 1965) have owned a house in the West Highlands since 1925.

However, since he has lived in Manchester for 50 years he wasn’t able to vote in that referendum even though he still owned a house up there. I asked him at the time how he felt about it (the 15year cut-off) and he said he thought it was fair as he didn’t LIVE there anymore. It was up to those who did - English, Polish, Spanish - whoever - to decide as they would be living with the consequences.

Same surely here as regards Brexit & ex pats? One cannot ‘cherry pick’.

All I said was ‘nothing stays the same’ and you know full well it doesn’t. Life will always be unfair to some if they choose to see it that way (not my father though).

Brexit will ONLY affect the ex pats if there is No Deal because of the reciprocal health care provision. If there’s a deal they will be FINE and they KNOW this.

As regards fluctuations in currency exchange rates, that’s not new to Brexit and it cannot and should not be held to account for it.

In 2009 we were on holiday in Fuerteventura and sterling was only fetching 99 cents to the £1. Some ex pats out there were having to sell up and come home as their pensions, once converted into euros meant they were struggling.

Don’t blame Brexit for ex pat lifestyle choices! They ought to have done SOME homework, surely?

Life is swings and roundabouts. I’m sorry - you seem determined to think I’m being harsh. There’s nothing I can do about that.

^This confuses me. I agree that nothing stays the same. All life is in a constant state of flux. So why do so many people who voted to leave the EU talk about returning to some kind of Britain and British values before the country joined the EU? In some cases, they've even been blatant that includes fewer brown and black faces and foreign languages in our streets.

The world does indeed not stay the same, so why don't people just get used to it and adapt rather than trying to return to some kind of mythical kingdom?^

Your post is so childish growstuff I can’t even begin to want to unpick it.

You disappoint me. I expected better from you.

April rose, there was some research published recently, the rusts of which did not surprise me at all.

People who were on the left and right of politics and those voting Remain and Leave were asked whether they would be upset if their child married a person of the opposite views.

Largely speaking (and by a very significant margin) those who were leftward leaning and/or who voted Remain would be appalled if their child married a Conservative or Leaver and this evening who were on the right or who voted Leave would not mind.

This goes completely along with what I have observed about the level of tolerance and understanding of those who hold these polemic views - and this cuts across levels of intelligence and understanding too. Being clever does not make for open mindedness or ability to think independently.

Most of my acquaintance are leftward leaning and Remainers and they are very clever women. To listen to them they might as well be wearing paper bags over their heads. They police their own thoughts so thoroughly that they simply cannot stray from their political standpoint to think for themselves.

To be honest, I wouldn’t much mind what the people my children took up with thought as long as they knew how to think.

Rusts? Results. Sorry.Predictive text strikes again.

This evening should be those. Blimey!

I have a severe case of Brexit fatigue, shared by many friends. Its unfortunate though as it's how things get through - force when opposition have more energy. I'd love another referendum... I'll duck now shall I?
We discuss moving away later in life but it's sad to feel like that

They police their own thoughts so thoroughly that they simply cannot stray from their political standpoint to think for themselves.

Perhaps thinking for themselves is the reason for their political standpoint.

I can't say that I've noticed rightwing people being particularly flexible in their thinking.

I find this post altogether odd...

I think it's something that applies to both extremes of political belief but not really those people that are more moderate in their viewpoint, be it coming from the right or the left.

This confuses me. I agree that nothing stays the same. All life is in a constant state of flux. So why do so many people who voted to leave the EU talk about returning to some kind of Britain and British values before the country joined the EU? In some cases, they've even been blatant that includes fewer brown and black faces and foreign languages in our streets

This is my take on it and I tend to agree with Ormstongran.

I do not think many Leavers do want a return to the past. I suspect that is someone elses take on what Leavers think. I certainly know that I do not want a return to anything. I want to see this country move forward, independently, thinking for itself, working for itslef and working out its own problems without being loaded down by the problems and issues of others. I want to see new values, our own values, not some made up list from a certain politician. We need to characterise our own identity not one which belongs to a nebulous superstate and leaves us with nothing.

Identity is important. Most politicians agree that. Most minority groups fight for it as part of their rights so it isn't new. Its a people thing. You make your own identity, it grows naturally, you do not have it socially engineered as it is in the EU. Its about looking forward into a global world. The EU is old, it was conceived by an Italian communist post WW2. It has outlived its usefulness, just as the soviet block outlived its purpose and was destroyed. I would rather we leave because I dont want to be near when the EU goes belly up as other such blocs have

I'm afraid that whatever happens to the EU we will still be 22 miles away (even closer to Ireland) aprilrose. And if the world's largest and most sophisticated trading bloc goes belly up it will have adverse effects worldwide, not just on its member states.