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Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

(186 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 28-Oct-19 08:21:18

I am aware that this blog post treads on contentious ground. But I think it only fair to say that I could not answer European’s questions as to what Brexiters want, put to me last week.

I can answer why we got Brexit. Austerity and the attitudes of indifference that led to it can answer almost all aspects of that question in some way or other. If an elite does not care eventually the majority find a way to bite back. And they did. So I am not saying I do not understand why a majority voted as they did. I think I do. I am instead saying I do not know what Leavers want now.

It’s clear that the government wants to pursue radical de-regulation on everything from worker to environmental, social and financial protections. Their goal is Singapore-on-Thames where they can show contempt for international norms and standards on every imaginable issue, and depart from previously hallowed ground on matters such as the NHS. Their desired outcome is a country with a more powerful and relatively richer elite, and they are indifferent as to whether that reduces the income of all else in the country. They, at least, can be understood.

But why do so many still support Leave when it is so apparent that this agenda is so harmful to them? And I mean harmful in the sense of very obviously imposing restrictions on their well-being? What is the trade off? Where is the gain? What advantage does the pursuit of English nationalism provide that makes it worthwhile having despite it making most worse off within the country, and by international comparison?

I know I am told, time and again, that I must seek to understand the Leaver. And I have tried. And no Leaver I have met has ever come close to being able to answer the simple question ‘how will your life be better by leaving given that you know there are costs from doing so?’ The best most do is deny the cost. But they still can’t explain the gain.

Richard Murphy
Oct 2019

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:06

Yes Monica. There is no difference whatsoever.

Never mind.

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:22

Has anyone said what they want from Brexit? I started wading through responses but didn't see any.

What DO you want from it?

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 17:53:24

What do I want from brexit? I want it to go away.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:54:58

If I spell it out my post will probably get deleted, but never mind.

I believe a lot of leavers voted leave because they didn't like the number of Muslims being allowed into the country. The Eastern European ones.

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 17:56:43

I want to turn the clock back and throw myself at Cameron. Seeing my stunning beauty, he will invite me out for a cozy meal. Over dinner, I will persuade him of the error of his ways, whereupon he will break into a rousing chorus of " Let's Call the Whole thing Off"

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:57:04

I don't care anymore. Stuff the lot of it. The world will just have to go on turning, one way or another.

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 18:00:41

The ones you're talking about Gonegirl are white. HOW does the average Brit know their religion?

Although I DID get funny looks in Asda while on chemo due to my style of head scarf wearing (genuinely).

Blimey, grapefruitpip, you must have wiles of the like that I've NEVER possessed.

But again. WHAT do you want from Brexit? Seems that not a single leaver can be specific.

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:05:47

Have you any evidence or links that prove that people voted leave because they don’t like Muslims being let into the country Gonegirl?

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:06:48

Of course I haven't. hmm

MaizieD Tue 29-Oct-19 18:07:28

Exactly, GagaJo.

I would like to be told what I am going to gain from Brexit. How my life will be improved. I want them to sell it to me...

Clearly I don't agree with their reasons for voting Leave, but that's not the issue now. The issue is how is it going to benefit us?

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:08:47

I was a remainer. Past caring now.

Callistemon Tue 29-Oct-19 18:15:18

Most Eastern Europeans are Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christian with some Lutheran and and the majority of the population of some countries eg Czech Republic (I believe) say they have no faith.
I understood that only Bosnia has a predominantly Muslim population.

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:19:43

Ha ha, I love your feisty response Gonegirl.

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 18:20:07

That's what I thought Callistemon.....Albania/ Turkey?

MaizieD Tue 29-Oct-19 18:23:32

Neither of them is in the EU grapefruitpip

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:24:11

OK! Forget the "eastern European bit"!

#noideawhereanyonecomesfrom

hmm

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:25:23

Feeling more jaded than feisty at the moment maddyone.

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:28:27

Bosnia isn’t in the EU though is it? Nor Albania which also has a Muslim population alongside an Orthodox population.
I’ve travelled a fair bit in Eastern European countries, Poland, East Germany, Hungry, Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Croatia, and also Montenegro and Bosnia, but they’re not in the EU. There are very few of any ethnic minority in any of those countries. You barely see anyone other than white people in western style dress.

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:29:10

Hope you feel better soon Gonegirl.

Callistemon Tue 29-Oct-19 18:31:46

Chin up Gonegirl
I think many of us are feeling jaded

Calendargirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:36:41

grapefruitpip

He was of course humming it!

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 18:59:50

Well, if leavers voted 'Leave' because they thought it would mean the end of Albanian and Turkish immigrants, it just shows how little they knew when they made their decision.sad

varian Tue 29-Oct-19 19:35:44

There was a huge amount of ignorance in 2016 when we were asked for a simple answer to a very complicated question which hardly anyone understood.

Nonnie Wed 30-Oct-19 10:00:03

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:22 good luck with that? I have been asking why since 2016 still waiting.

I know one person who voted to leave because he wanted to stop black people coming to the UK. None of us could talk him out of his opinion. I also got into a Fb debate with a friend of a friend and he wanted to stop Muslims coming in. He finally stopped berating me when I asked him which EU country they were coming from! I believe there were people who voted for racist reasons.

maddyone Wed 30-Oct-19 10:07:29

Unfortunately people like that mean that all leavers get tarred with the same brush. People were justifiably concerned about pressure on services, sovereignty, and lack of accountability, which I think informed the leave vote.