Considering voting Tory?

GGMK3 I know of at least 3 families who have made the choice to live of benefits, not gossip, fact.

I'm afraid so far it's only gossip. Have you seen the forms showing the reasons why they are claiming? Have you checked their bank accounts as the people running the benefits are able to do? Why and how do you know their business in such detail that you can sware they are conning the system? Gossip. Nothing more or less.

GGMK3 as you are aware this is an “open forum” and I am not going to divulge these families personal details.

You can doubt all you like, but I know it is a fact as do others.

For the record I am neither a gossip or a liar.

I don't expect you to GG13. I just don't believe that either the three families you think you know about constituting a sample for the whole country nor do I think unless you have PoA for each of them you can actually know all about them.

I am generally quite an open person but if I were to meet nasty, gossipy old ladies who had an opinion an everything and facts on nothing, and felt they were better than others, I think I would be inclined to mislead them. In some circumstances this may actually have happened.

I feel I have said all I want to on that topic but I do want people to know what others think of Tories, particularly Mr Johnson so I will repeat the link in case it gets lost in the gossip research.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjUWX6S8iYU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1LaEMBuxulrmMXZb12okV2p3Fq8OU0kEFP_IiMOMHN1YR7fpTNQMOJVNA

Tories: “We will replace the 20000 police cut by the Tories”

“We will replace all the nurses cut by the Tories”

“We will replace the playing fields sold off by the Tories”

There’s no area where Tories won't promise to repair the damage done by Tories.

Johnson eugenic theory

Boris Johnson states the UK public are "Far from equal in raw ability, if not in spiritual worth". He also says "It is surely relevant, to a conversation about equality, that as many of 16% of our species have an IQ below 85" and "Some measurement of inequality is essential".

There is no way the Tories are any good for this country....
by the time most people have been reduced to misery the UK will be finished.
We can't pull together anymore. we are broken,
The Tory party only represent the rich, not the middle classes anymore. Just the wealthy.

We will have to pay more for necessary utilities, water and food and health care.
People who work get paid less and work on zero hour contracts.

I cannot understand how anyone who isn't really well off can defend them?

The way you could understand ordinary folk voting Tory is to try reading The Express, The Sun, The Telegraph and the Daily Mail

Ex Tory minister Nicky Morgan says 'We should be concerned about Russian interference'

news.sky.com/video/we-should-be-concerned-about-russian-interference-11880250

So, Nicky, can you ask BJ to publish the damning report he has supressed for weeks?

I don't think that's eugenic theory, ww. Eugenics relates to (supposed or real) genetic improvement. What Johnson says there is just plain fact: that people are not all equal as relates to raw ability (intelligence, muscle power, etc, etc) is plain fact.

This does not mean, nor does BJ suggest it means, that people should not be given equal opportunities as nearly as is possible.

politicsandinsights.org/2019/12/07/prospectus-for-a-failed-state/

GG13 you are becoming the epitome of why people think so badly Tory supporters. You are getting very boring.

You, it appears would be happy with a party full of Islamaphobia race hatred. To each his own.

Islamaphobia race hatred Islamaphobia and race hatred

This does not mean, nor does BJ suggest it means, that people should not be given equal opportunities as nearly as is possible.

He doesn't? You could have fooled me.

Whatever you think of his views on eugenics this is the sort of thing he believes and has written about.

* 1998, The Telegraph: (Commenting on the resignation of Peter Mandelson from the Labour Party) "[It will lead to blubbing from] tank-topped bumboys at the Ministry of Sound" nightclub."

* 2001, "Friends, Voters, Countrymen": "If gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog."

* 2005, The Telegraph: "[Voters on] run-down estates [support Labour in] the deluded hope of bigger hand-outs. [These] bottom fifth [of Britons] supplies us with the chavs, the losers, the burglars, the drug addicts and the 70,000 people who are lost in our prisons and learning nothing except how to become more effective criminals. [Labour MPs want to ban hitting children because of their] revulsion when they see a chav belting her kids in the supermarket."

* 2005, The Spectator: [Children of single mothers are] ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate. [Their fathers are too] feeble to take control of [their] woman."

* 2013, Centre for Policy Studies: "Whatever you may think of the value of IQ tests, it is surely relevant to a conversation about inequality that as many as 16 per cent of our species have an IQ below 85 while about 2 per cent have an IQ above 130... I don't believe that economic equality is possible [because of] human beings who are far from equal in raw ability."

I definitely hear the beat of the far-right drums when I read that and we know what goes with that sort of thinking.

This PPB might cheer this thread up a bit.

Excellent- and says it all, thanks.

So true

You can be a caring home (and even multiple homes) owner- you can be a caring land owner, and yes, it is possible to be a caring business owner. I know quite a few.

They have worked hard, very hard - but they also have the humility to accept that they were also at the right place at the right time- and very lucky that it all worked out for them ...

Why is it assumed (by many) that we all vote out of self interest anyway? I'm comfortably off but I'm not interested in minimising the tax I pay. Why should I be?

I'd really like a more equal society with good services and a robust safety net. As the fifth largest economy, we can easily afford it. I'd like to know that, should they need it, in the future, my grandchildren would be supported by a caring society. Anyone, at any time, can become unwell, disabled, unemployed, homeless etc. through sheer bad luck, after all.

Do people not realise how expensive cutbacks and austerity are - in other areas? There are knock on effects. Cutbacks in education and the youth services, fewer police, zero hours employment etc. - resulting instability and far more people in prison, costing an awful lot more than the rare large families on benefits that seem to obsess some folk.

How can a post disappear without any mention of it at all...???
It normally would say 'post deleted because ...'

Which, what where has disappeared?

A post about voting Conservative because the poster is a home owner, land owner and business owner.

trueblue22 ??
Not long to go now thankfully, fingers crossed that Corbyn will not be stepping into number ten next weekend!
Hopefully, he will instead be stepping down as leader.

I would be interested in hearing more about the 3 families living on benefits. It is quite easy to paint a little pen portrait without giving out names and locations.

I suppose you could refer to them as X and Y.