Mogg

grapefruit for heavens sake do stop trying to control what is posted

maddy he is an expert because he said he is. He is a staunch supporter of the Labour Party but not a member because he said he wasn’t.

I have no control, clearly but I can't sit back here and not have the guts to say something...unlike a lot of others.

Blinko The report on the LFB covers the instructions. As you said the LFB did not know that the cladding did not meet safety requirements and therefore instead of being safe shut in their flats many residents lost their lives. When doors are opened fire spreads quickly. The film Backdraft clearly shows the result of opening doors in burning buildings.

Some Tories have been telling that Mogg has apologised profusely as if that should satisfy everyone. Why is it deemed that an apology makes everything better? Mogg had thoughts and he didn't mis-speak as one Tory MP stated this evening.

Guts grapefruit ? others have good manners

There comes a point where colluding with something you know to be unhealthy is damaging.

Oh you know ? another expert

Annie, for God's sake get some help and begin to let go and move on

Who the hell do you think you are?! Bloody cheek.

Well said gonegirl. Tragedies are personal things like grief and bereavement everyone reacts differently and in their own way. annie has as much right to her feelings as anyone and can say what she choooses.

anniebach, you stated in an earlier post in this thread that you did not read my posts in any thread. That is why I stated that had the Health & Safety at Work Act been in existence at the time of the Aberfan tragedy then the investigation and Courts may well have concluded that those who lived in the village and were employed at the mine had at least some responsibility for that terrible disaster.

If that statement of mine upset you anniebach as someone who was caught up in that disaster then I apologise, but without doubt, the statement is the truth.

However, if it is in any way a consolation to you then the thought that had the above legislation been in existence at the time of the disaster then almost certainly that catastrophic accident would never have happened.

As I stated earlier in this thread, risk assessment is at the very heart of the Health & Safety at Work Act and it's encompassing legislation. In that, risk assessments by trained competent persons would have been carried out on the hazards of tipping the mine spoil on that hillside, and on those assessment results, the tipping operation would never have begun.

Again apologies anniebach if what I stated upset you, but you did say that you never read my posts.

Some want me to be silence because they are touchy when union power is critcised, I will not.

And one more thing, grandad43 has said the fathers of those children who died in Aberfan were partly responsible for the deaths of their own children .

I need say no more on this, but i am certainly not the one who needs to get help.

As can I.

tbh, I am not that interested in silencing anybody or unions.

I do feel concern for your wellbeing and your obsessive posts.

grandad43, I cannot accept your apologies, you said I along with others could have been found partly responsible for killing those children .

You thought you could say such a vile thing because I said I didn’t read your posts. I don’t read your epistles on health and safety , constant repetitions .

I sincerely hope and pray you and grapefruit never go into a makeshift mortuary with parents looking for their children’s
bodies . The same parents you claim could be partly responsible for the deaths.

Rock bottom and still drilling comes to mind when I think of that post you wrote,

No, sorry I don't have to take that. We only have one life, we have to try and rise above the pain.
I'm not sure being on this site is doing you any good Annie.

Ring a neighbour, talk to the Tesco man. go out with the Mind worker, see your family. Check in here if it suits.

grapefruitpip
When someone has been personally involved in such an awful tragedy such as Aberfan it's their tragedy and by that very fact it's their right to talk/ write about it for as long as they wish.

Nobody but nobody has the right to tell them to let go and move on

Anniebach Some locals did have knowledge that the tips were slipping. From memory, it was something to do with water seeping into them. Those people might not have had family and friends directly affected, but they did know about the dangers and some of them said nothing because the procedures weren't in place. That (I believe) is the point Grandad is making. Regular statutory inspections with a crystal clear reporting system could (and probably would) have prevented the disaster. As it was, the people with direct knowledge didn't feel empowered to report their concerns.

Lessons should have been learnt about the reporting of concerns. It's not the first time people have said after the event "Well, we knew it was dangerous" (or something similar). Hopefully, the second report into the Grenfell Tower will investigate how much people knew and whether they acted. I'm not going to speculate.

Meanwhile, back to Rees-Mogg. I can only assume that he positively makes an effort to appear as someone superior, who has no reason to care anything at all about his "inferiors". I don't believe he's stupid and he must know the impression he gives. If he cared about it, he would be careful about what he says. The fact that he isn't speaks volumes … IMO.

OK I tried, I'm out.

With regard to Aberfan, there had been many complaints about the slag heaps. Letters written and all ignored.

This article explains all

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-150d11df-c541-44a9-9332-560a19828c47

To suggest that people should forget is crass.

Also the very popular show, The Crown, has an entire episode about the tragedy.

It should never be forgotten and now a new generation will learn of the horror

www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/tv/the-crown-aberfan-episode-review-17204343

growstuff with respect you are speaking nonsense

Just saying "with respect" before a comment doesn't make it respectful.

There have been dozens of major disasters since the 60's including the Isle of Man Summerland fire (1973), Bradford City stadium fire (1985), Hillsborough (1989), Paddington train crash (1999), Ibrox football stadium crush (1971), King's Cross fire (1987), and many more, including several colliery disasters - all involving large numbers of fatalities and serious injuries. I expect many people, who are old enough to remember these tragedies, now have no clear recollection - or no recollection at all - of them.

Perhaps you'd like to provide links for all of them Oopsminty - or is there some sort of hierarchy of tragedy?

We were actually talking about Grenfell.

Where there warnings of dangers before the disasters you list
Eleothan ?

I don't know but certainly negligence and bad practice was involved in at least some of them. In the Summerland fire there was an issue of highly flammable materials used.

The warnings in both cases should have been heeded, I think that goes without saying. Grenfell is recent, is being investigated now and the findings will have great relevance to the many hundreds of thousands of people living in high rise flats.

anniebach, Growstuff is correct in stating that at the time of the Aberfan disaster persons employed at the mine had shown concern at regard to the tipping of the mine spoil on that hillside. Growstuff is also correct in stating that at that time there was no legislative structure in place that ensured that such concerns had to be investigated at any level of management either local or national.

However, with the introduction of the Health & Safety & Work Act in 1974 that legislation ensured that such concerns must be fully investigated by management. In such cases as where no incident has yet occurred (by example, Aberfan prior to the disaster), a full risk assessment must be carried out by competent and trained persons and if the lower numerical parameters of that assessment are not met then risk reduction measures must be implemented or the operation or planned operation cease.

Therefore anniebach, as stated Growstuff is perfectly correct in what was stated in his/her above posts.

In regard to the Grenfell Tower tragedy, it may well be that changes to the legislation in regard to the safety certification of products used in the Building industry (manufacturers self-certification) may have made the risk assessments carried out for the cladding of the building not worth the paper they were written on.

However, the above is prejudging the outcome of the second stage of the inquiry, but evidence presented to the inquiry so far would seem to point in the direction of the above.

Thank you Grandad. The person whose talk I went to see years ago was called Barry Turner, who apparently wrote a book called "The Failure of Foresight". Local people did know about the dangers. One person even realised on the morning of the disaster that something was going to happen and told his supervisor, who decided it wasn't urgent. It was a reflection of a lack of responsibility for health and safety. Poor communication was also mentioned. Apparently two people with senior jobs didn't talk to each other because they had a personal dislike for each other. One of the messages was that loads of small clues weren't considered as a whole. The Summerland fire tragedy was also mentioned.

With Grenfell, the same excuses couldn't be made because we now have much tighter regulations, but it seems they weren't followed.

Hopefully, the report will not only give the survivors and relatives of those killed some small sense of closure, but also be a lesson that "red tape" isn't just a paper exercise to keep auditors and the rest happy.

Anyway, back to Rees-Mogg and Andrew Bridgen and their tactless comments ...