Gransnet forums

News & politics

Tactical voting - again!

(35 Posts)
Luckygirl Sat 16-Nov-19 10:28:43

Candidates for my constituency now available. There is a sitting Tory - Lib Dems have had an MP here before, and were second in the race last GE.

So - the greens and Labour have also fielded candidates as well as Lib Dems. Bingo! - anyone wanting to try and oust the Tories will have a wasted vote because the opposition is split. Where are their brains? It cannot be political ambition because the Greens and Labour know they do not have a cat in hell's chance of getting in.

varian Sat 16-Nov-19 10:32:18

It is a pity that the Greens and Labour might take votes from the Libdems and let the Tories win. I expect the tactical voting websites will give clear advice for Remainers to vote LibDem and this should be given as much publicity as possible.

Ilovecheese Sat 16-Nov-19 10:32:37

But if the Greens and Labour had not fielded candidates, voters would only have had a choice of two right wing parties. I think having a different choice matters, just as much as between leave or remain.

Anniebach Sat 16-Nov-19 10:37:22

Labour has a candidate standing here, been Tory or Lib since the 70’s, at the recent bi election Labour was 4th , Libs won but the Tory candidate had been found guilty of fiddling the books, he still came 2nd.

varian Sat 16-Nov-19 11:03:54

The tactical voting arrangement by the Remain parties is open and transparent but the Tories have made underhand attemlts to get Farages candidates to stand down by secretly offering bribes of positons and gongs. They have denied it but Anne Widdecombe has said she is prepared to swdar on the bible that she was offered a place on the brexit negotiating team if she stood down. The police are investigating this serious breach of electoral law.


Whitewavemark2 Thu 21-Nov-19 07:56:05

Lots of advise out there now if you are interested.

Many must hold their noses and vote for not their first or even second choice, but the goal is worth it?

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 09:07:27

What Labour are offering is a set of policies and principles that will radically change the face of Britain. It is for the electorate to decide if they wish to see such change brought into being or the alternative of this nation continuing along a path of ever greater inequality that benefits perpetually fewer people.

Labour is a broad movement and not just a political party. In that, they are a wide radical alternative which those who cast their vote for its candidates are subscribing to that alternative which will be in comparison to the policies of the Clement Atlee led Labour government of 1945 that so changed the face of Britain.

If anyone believes such a change is necessary then vote Labour for no other party is offering anything similar.

growstuff Thu 21-Nov-19 09:14:03

And Labour still won't win Grandad. Sorry, but for many people, it's going to be a question of voting for the lesser evil.

Hetty58 Thu 21-Nov-19 09:14:20

Grandad1943, I agree completely and many people will think that it's time for a radical change. I'm concerned, though, that frustrated leavers will vote elsewhere.

silverlining48 Thu 21-Nov-19 09:15:15

We have the same offering here * luckygirl* which means that almost certainly our less than useless tory will win again. I despair.

growstuff Thu 21-Nov-19 09:15:24

The people who can afford to vote with their conscience are those who live in places where their vote doesn't even matter.

growstuff Thu 21-Nov-19 09:17:12

Same here silverlining. My useless Tory has a 28,000 majority and I can't even begin to describe how absolutely awful she is. She really did spot a gravy train and hopped on it.

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 10:16:27

growstuff, in regard to your post @09:14 today, I did not make any comment in regard to whether the Labour Party would win the General Election on not, for that is still to be decided.

What I did comment on was that the Labour movement as a whole are offering a complete alternative to how the governance of Britain has been perceived for many decades. In that, those voting Labour will be casting their choice for a complete change in policies and principles that has seen nothing in its resemblance in over seventy years.

Therefore, certainly among the affiliate activists in the Broader Labour movement, they would wish for no one to vote tactically, but to vote as Labour in full support of the principle of radical change even if in this election their local candidate would seem to have little chance of winning that seat.

Indeed, speaking to some of those affiliate activists in the last few days, they believe that a few years of unrestricted Johnson doctoring such as cutting workers rights and witnessing the NHS declining still further and being sold off, could bring that radical change into being far quicker than being engaged in any coalition government that achieves little towards that end.

In Labour that is the choice.

Grany Thu 21-Nov-19 10:21:05

Hear Hear Well Said Granddad1943

Grany Thu 21-Nov-19 10:29:50

Sorry spelt your name wrong here spelt correctly Grandad1943

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-19 10:30:13

The cold fact, Grandad is that there are constituencies where Labour has absolutely no chance of winning. The choice is between voting for another party to get the tories out or voting Labour in an unwinnable constituency, splitting the vote and letting the tories back in. I think the first is a more pressing need.

I absolutely agree that the Labour Plan is what the country needs, but we have to be realistic at this time.

Amagran Thu 21-Nov-19 10:37:23

Allowing the Tories to get a majority at this election will do unimaginable damage to our country, politically, socially, economically and morally. We will be a satellite of either the US or Russia. Hobson's choice. Except it won't be our choice, it will be Boris Johnson's. He seems to be hedging his bets. The Russians already hold sway over the Tory party and own a substantial part of our capital city, but at least they won't get their hands on the NHS - that has been promised to Trump.

Grany Thu 21-Nov-19 11:37:50

I thought to myself the Lib Dems couldn't possibly be stupid enough to consider another coalition with the Tories. Then I saw Ed Davey try to convince Andrew Neil they could get a Labour style ref WITH the Tories! Now I'm utterly convinced they will put Johnson in power. #GE2019

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 12:33:12

People who believe that Britain requires radical change need to get fully behind the Labour movement for such change will never come about by "tinkering around the edges." Coalitions bring fudge and compromise in their wake which in the case of the Cameron and Clegg coalition government made many of this countries dilemmas worse rather than better. In that administration, both leaders broke pledges to their own supporters and activists, and that should never occur.

Pragmaticism and compromise has its place in many circumstances, but if anyone believes that Britain needs radical change, that is now being put forward by the Labour movement. However, That change will never be achieved by engaging in coalition with any other English party for none have the now profound left wing beliefs that Labour now holds at its core.

As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, Labour is now on the same political ground that the Clement Attlee Labour government occupied in 1945. That government proved to be the greatest peacetime government this nation has ever possessed.

Therefore, if any member of the electorate wishes to get behind real change then there can only be one choice on the ballot paper and that is Labour. Anything else outside of Tory or Labour is a vote for compromise and fudge and perhaps witnessing Britains problems become even deeper.

The choice could not be clearer.

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-19 12:35:15

Labour cannot get a working majority in this election

MaizieD Thu 21-Nov-19 12:38:32

It's no good voting for them where the vote would be split to let the Tories in. Please face facts, Grandad.

Davidhs Thu 21-Nov-19 12:39:26

Grandad, the “affiliate activists” as you call them need to be much more realistic in their choice of party leader and the reforms that the are demanding. Reforms cannot be made unless you win a decent majority in parliament, even then the policies have got to be sensible. The need to look back and learn the lessons of history, in a democracy extreme policies don’t last.
Our generation remembers the chaos that the Wilson/ Callaghan era brought, the policies were not extreme at all but it all got out of control and allowed Thatcher to win 3 elections. We will see what the election brings, if there is a hung parliament it’s hard to see any effective administration until the Brexit issue is resolved permanently.

Davidhs Thu 21-Nov-19 12:49:49

Clem Attlee had a ace up his sleeve, the NHS with universal appeal, after WW2 an overwhelming carrot for all the middle ground to get behind.

Grandad1943 Thu 21-Nov-19 12:50:01

MaizieD Quote [ Labour cannot get a working majority in this election] End Quote.

MaizieD, your above statement may or may not be true. However, I believe that to poll for a Labour Candidate even if he or she has little chance of winning that seat on December the twelfth would be a statement of support for the fairer society proposed through radical change that are the Labour movement core policies.

If sufficient people think in terms of the above, then anything is possible on Election day. Remember, all the press believed that Winston Churchill would command a landslide victory in 1945, but the electorate thought differently.....did they not.

Grany Thu 21-Nov-19 12:51:39

The Labour Party is launching the #LabourManifesto in Birmingham, I’ve just found it on the Labour party website. Please, download it, read it, share it - it’s a thing of beauty. ❤️?#GE2019 #VoteLabour