Meat or no Meat - wow

crystaltipps what a strange thing to assume - that just because people eat meat, which could be ethically sourced and very local, does not mean that many are not concerned about the ethical issues concerned in industrial farming
Quite the opposite in fact.

How many vegans are aware of exactly where their soy etc is produced and how much forest has been cleared for the production of such products.
Besides which, just how far it has had to travel to reach the plate?

it is a sick reality that animals are often forced to eat other animals in modern farming. Isn't it how we ended up with CJD for instance?

Indeed MamaCAz- nonsense, for sure

And again- even if that was the case - surely that is what differentiates us from animals. We can see the bigger picture and the consequences, and can choose to act differently - whereas they can't.

nb we are NOT vegetarians or vegans- but try to eat less meat, and local. Got a stew on now, and the meat is about 1/4 - rest is all vegetables and beans.

I agree about the programme content, oldgimmer. Nothing new and too much focus on the presenter's feelings.

Lamb is expensive because it is killed while young and at a low weight so you don't get the return. People tend not to want the stronger flavour of hogget or mutton which IMO is far superior.

Gonegirl Tue 26-Nov-19 17:57:52

All animals eat other animals if they get the chance.

Really? I don't think so.

''I am off to put our Pieminster steak pies in the oven. Yum.''

how does that contribute to a very important question - just pointless and nonsense. A pity.

I actually found the programme somewhat lacking in depth.

Most if this information has been in the public domain for some time. There weren't any surprises, really.

I think the programme could have benefited from better analysis and more context.

It was all a bit John Craven's Newsround (no disrespect intended).

And we really could have done without the maudlin background music; what purpose did it serve, really?

I think the chicken scene was well done though. I've often wondered how chicken - especially lean chicken breast - is so cheap. Too cheep cheap.

Lamb is expensive, relatively speaking. Why is that? . Is it because lamb is not factory farmed?

I am off to put our Pieminster steak pies in the oven. Yum.

I am not wrong! Just because one man says so, doesn't make it fact. It's common sense.

All animals eat other animals if they get the chance. It's part of the scheme of things.

When we were first married the Sunday roast (usually chicken or pork) would be bulked out with roast and mashed potatoes as well as Yorkshire pudding. There was plenty of veg but it was unusual to have more than two or three on the plate.

I agree about portion size. One of the Americans in the programme walked by the camera with a cardboard tray of meat from a barbecue which would feed the two of us for a week!

When I was growing up the Sunday joint lasted at least 3 days - hot, cold, in a stew or shepherd's pie....

These days people eat far too much meat, the helpings are simply gross - much larger than anyone needs.

I have no desire to give up meat entirely and I'm not sure that getting rid of animals completely is sensible. However, we frequently eat vegetarian meals. No way am I going vegan, though.

Actually your wrong aGonegirl I remember reading a long time ago that man wasn’t made to eat meat yes we have the teeth but it’s something to do with the stomach and digestive system
I can’t remember the details I ll have to look it up
I haven’t bought any meat this year I have occasionally eaten a chicken dish when out but nothing in the shopping basket
I can’t see the doctor saying the child HAD to eat meat minimoon he probably said she needed some dairy in her diet as children need the nutrients calcium etc so not vegan but children can happily be brought up vegetarian

Humans don't need to eat meat, what you need is a balanced diet. I have been vegetarian for over 15 years and nowadays mostly vegan. At the there is a choice but I think that choice will be removed as climate change becomes more apparent and action is desperately needed. However it's worth remembering that there's no such thing as cheap meat.

Farmers can and would like to farm in a more environmentally friendly way, less intensive, mixed farming which would be much more efficient. That cannot be done at the current prices for food, if the government wanted that done, it could dictate production methods that met that goal but it doesn’t. The current policy is cheap food with very few restriction on imports, currently only health restrictions ( GM, Hormones, etc) are major limitations.

To turn the clock back 50 yrs and have traditional mixed farming would mean a large increase in food prices, no government is going to do that, the image of a small farm raising Beef, Sheep, Chickens, Wheat and Pigs is just fantasy.
The truth is that livestock production, particularly Dairy, Beef and Sheep is just not profitable, not only in the UK but other countries as well, the US has serious issues too.

Because of poor economics farms are becoming amalgamated and intensified to survive, there does not seem any prospect of that changing.

Please don ‘t bash vegans again. Just because you are vegan doesn’t mean you have to eat processed or any more imported food than anyone else in the UK - we import 60% of our food and it’s not all to feed vegans. You should be pleased some people are vegan as it means a smaller demand for meat products which is what is needed for the environment, even if you don’t care about the ethical issues involved in industrial farming surely the slow destruction of the planet is something to be concerned about? I am perfectly healthy and haven’t eaten meat for at least 60 years. I take no meds, have low blood pressure, low cholesterol and weigh around 9 stone. I don’t eat much processed foods, do like a glass of wine and the odd bag of crisps, it’s not all lentils and tofu. So please don’t slag off vegans - it’s a choice and should be respected as such. It might not be for you if you have grown up in a meat eating tradition, but maybe more knowledge about what’s on your plate and how it got there is a good thing.

Gonegirl '' Quite unnecessary to kill that poor little hen though. (I know she was bound for the table anyway, but still hmm)''

au contraire- it was totally essential to get the message through. And she was not killed for the programme, but for the table- and to film it was to illustrate that we have totally lost touch with the reality of meat.

That hen had had a good life, outside, with natural grass and grubs, in a small group- and it was killed on the spot- no cruel catching and transport in awful conditions, no stress of queuing in awful conditions at abattoirs and being hung upside down alive in a long queue to have head cut off.

It was despatched in seconds - there, honestly, and eaten soon after. Bravo and essential viewing.

We don’t eat meat every day as we both love all sorts of vegetables and fish.

The meat I do buy is always organic and invariably locally produced.

I do think we would struggle to get all our nutrients if we were totally vegetarian and nothing would convince me that veganism is a healthy way to eat.

We have a friend who is vegan but her children are vegetarian because she knows that veganism is not suitable for growing children.

My daughter has a friend who was bringing up her family as vegan. Unfortunately her daughter developed a skin condition. The doctor she saw said that she needed to eat meat, as no amount of supplements would give her what she needed.
I didn't watch the programme, and don't intend to. I think that DH and I eat responsibly, having two meat free days a week.
What else can the ordinary woman do?

I forgot to add - and transported from goodness knows where in the world to the UK

I think the idea of veganism is to save the planet, not whether or not we like meat moggie - that is a personal choice.

Personally, I would rather eat a small portion of local meat and locally (or at least British) grown vegetables than some vegan product which has been grown overseas, had forests chopped down to enable more vegan food to be grown and then produced in a factory. Or fungus.

I didn't see the programme because we are in France at the moment.

Most of the information given and shown in this programme has been in the public domain for several decades for those who wanted to know. For that reason, as well as reducing our meat consumption and buying only organic meat. I am now moving to Pasture for Life meat www.pastureforlife.org/

The Pasture for Life mark certifies that Pasture for Life meat and dairy comes from animals raised only on grass and pasture. All the farms are visited to make sure the farmers follow a set of agreed production standards, based upon the animal’s natural diet.

That way the animals are leading a natural life, without extra feed that is not their natural food and causes digestion and health problems, grown on land that could grow crops.

Yes, it is expensive, but we are just eating less.

Vegans will become unhealthy. Man was designed to eat meat. IMO of course.

I don't think Greta T or anyone else thinks we have to sacrifice every little pleasure in life. Nothing wrong with having Dominos pizzas delivered.

Or, you can always use the cycling delivery people.

no meat .cows get tumours .think what you are eating.gelatine comes from the lining of a cows stomach .most of the jelly sweets are made of gelatine .oh yuk...havent eaten meat now for at least 35 years. i do force the odd bit of chicken down.but usually end up spitting it out. those poor animals as they go off to slaughter. sorry i wont be part of it.i love animals ,why kill them for enjoyment of eating them.i take b12 to make up for red meat. i eat lots of veg. nut roasts .not keen on quorn but eat veggie mince soya.dairy foods dont agree with me .almond milk/oat milk is good.

The rise in the popularity of veganism is a good thing because it will hopefully educate about alternative proteins to meat and fish. Supermarkets are now selling far more non meat products than ever before.

Nobody has to give up meat completely. Just eat less of it.