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Con merchants

(87 Posts)
GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 09:32:13

I have realised, after yet another recorded message designed to frighten me into parting with my money and any sense of self-worth, that this is the modern day Conservative Party. People don't care any more that Boris is lying. When my mother was scammed she simply would not believe she was being lied to. The ERG Tories know this.

Just like the man asking about your computer knows that if he presses the right buttons you will go along with him the ERG Conservative believes if they frighten you with childish views of monsters (Jeremy Corbyn and the LP in g his instance) some will cower in the corner and hand over their future to these lying con men.

If they say the right things and soothe the voters by repeating the voters style back at them, in this case with Islamophobia and nativist commitment, just like the scam romance some will believe they understand them and care.

Sadly, many who are scammed don't believe it until the are robed and humiliated and I'm afraid, very afraid, that this is exactly what those voting ERG Tory voters will do. Then they will ask why someone didn't stop them.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:38:55

What experience of means testing to you have EllanVannin? Do you actually know how it works in practice? Do you realise that there are "cliff edges" where those just above thresholds pay considerably more for services than those just below? Are you aware how much admin is involved in administering means testing?

I already pay for diabetic testing strips and some other medications, which are not funded by the NHS. I also pay for glasses and dental treatment. I can usually afford them, but sometimes I can't because they're a lower priority than my rent, council tax, utility bills and food. I actually need new glasses at the moment, but I'm putting off getting them until the New Year because I can't afford them.

At what level do you think people should pay for medical treatment and would there be a cap? Financially, I live on a knife edge and being forced to pay even a couple of hundred pounds would be a problem. I read social media diabetes groups with many American posters and I can see for myself that their treatment is affected by cost. Quite simply, they cannot afford the tests and medications, which I receive for free - and that's even before I start on the cost of treating the heart attack I had.

Many others are in a similar financial situation.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:40:33

I agree with you about PFIs Callistemon but I don't see how they're a justification for more outsourcing. confused

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:40:52

Something has to give as we can't continue with a system where staff are extremely overworked and also leaving in their droves.

Why do you think they underfunded it? It was to convince you of just the above. Even Johnson is now saying he was nothing to do with the austerity we had and there was no need for it. It was political, not economic.

But you believe the lies. Why? Because you think you and yours will be better off if others are worse off? What kind of morality is that?

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:42:55

How about getting pensioners to pay reduced National Insurance Contributions EllanVannin rather than not paying any? That would be means testing and the system would already be in place.

Sussexborn Fri 29-Nov-19 11:43:47

I had the same experience with Labour Party propaganda appearing in my email and Facebook despite clicking on no political party information. They sneak in under the radar. Just delete as soon as you see the heading.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:44:53

Good thought growstuff.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:47:21

No, outsourcing does not equate with paying for treatment, but you really have been lucky if you haven't realised that the service provided by the NHS has deteriorated over the last decade. Much of that is because part of a limited budget is going to shareholders. Have you not read about the scandals involving privatised ambulance services or care homes? Do you really have no idea what has happened to mental health services?

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 11:48:34

Maybe they can't afford eye tests Nonnie grin

GracesGranMK3 Fri 29-Nov-19 11:50:01

But we do not know it was LP propaganda Sussexborn as you are neither showing us or referencing it. For all, we know you could be a member of the ERG Tories or a Russian bot and your post could be propaganda. I like to think you are not so could you let us see what you are calling "propaganda" is just that or if you yet again being conned by the Tories and not believing the simple truth.

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 11:53:44

Soul destroying for hospital staff ! ( rolls eyes ) stop being so quick with your nastiness, or is it only YOUR opinion that counts ??

I'm voiding my ballot paper !

I've been on the receiving end of paid treatment in Oz.

I paid into BUPA all my working life.

I've paid for a private room for a 2 and half day stay.

I'd willingly pay for a GP consultation if I had to do.

Australia have a free system also but guess what ? it's not running as smoothly as they'd like because staff are inundated/overworked-----because it's free !!

Tooting29 Fri 29-Nov-19 12:05:57

There is a difference between being up for sale and open for business. NHS buying power is huge, where do you think we get drugs, equipment, cleaning products, uniforms, hospital meals all the minuatiae that a public service needs. LP are scare mongering it's any easy slogan to chant and put on placard and take up in righteous protest. NHS has to served on the most cost effective way so it can remain free at the point of use. If NHS patients can benefit from cheaper generic drugs (which are cheaper in US) then why not? Are we as queasy about supplies coming from other countries. The problem with NHS is that its emotionalised, plays on fears. Rational thought and solutions are required, more trained staff, leverage purchasing power, and have efficient management. The service is patchy areas of excellence, others less so. Above all take it out of the hands of politicians

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 12:08:45

When I married in the late 50's I was put on reduced NI---because I was married and didn't have a choice as I remember thrashing this out with some " job's worth " idiot that it was totally unfair. My NI number and tax number changed at that point. I had superannuation which " disappeared " and because I was carrying a different NI number nobody at the time could work anything out, so I'd been well and truly fleeced by the government at the time.

Surprise surprise, it was a Conservative government at the time with the same unease then, after Anthony Eden as it is at present with the worst Labour leader waiting in the wings---Harold MacMillan. Hence the cock-up in government departments.

Calendargirl Fri 29-Nov-19 12:13:35

Yes, Australia has people going to A&E because they can’t get GP appointments. And they have to pay for appointments. And children don’t get free prescriptions.
It’s not all sunshine over there.

Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 12:16:54

Children don't get free dental treatment either.
DFS is going to need a brace which is going to cost a lot!

I have received free emergency treatment in Australia; prompt and very good.

Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 12:17:35


Callistemon Fri 29-Nov-19 12:19:13

EV exactly the same happened to me, can't remember who was in government at the time, it was later than that.

BlueBelle Fri 29-Nov-19 12:29:41

Corbyn has only told the truth about the NHS what faults he’s got I don’t know I know he has been defiled by the Tories propaganda and downright lies to turn the country into fear of him and the Labour Party
The Tories and the mega rich media are going to totally ruin the country and the nHS
Well they have already do you realise how much of the NHs has been tended out to private companies since the Tories got into government it’s been chipped and chipped away at most people don’t realise because they still use the NHS logo
It’s ruined I don’t know how any country could come back from this we are living a nightmare

Granny23 Fri 29-Nov-19 12:30:39

WHAT???? EllenVanna are you really suggesting that those who cannot afford to pay should not be treated so that those who can pay will have better service, quicker appointments, lovely empty beds waiting for a paying customer?

You say you would be "willing" to pay" - can't you see that their are millions who cannot "afford" to pay. Not scroungers but those who are hit perhaps with a double whammy, eg 2 or more very ill people in one family, a child born with a progressive life shortening condition?

And, there is still the elephant in the room - the inequity of those (like us) who are using their life savings to fund care because my DH has the disease called Dementia, rather than another terminal disease such as an untreatable cancer.

BlueBelle Fri 29-Nov-19 12:31:51

*callistemon’ pretty sure your ‘free’ treatment in Australia is covered by your insurance not free My friend was taken Ill ‘down under’ and even had to pay back the ambulance ride

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 12:33:18

Well, lucky you EllanVannin. In other words, you don't really have a clue how the NHS operates.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 12:37:50

Tooting I'm not talking about the sourcing of drugs and equipment or even staff. I'm talking about the outsourcing of many services, such as mental health, and GP services by a number of companies. The latter, in particular, is skimming off resources from the NHS by only treating patients without chronic conditions but taking the fees. The NHS gets left to pick up the chronically ill and old, who are much more expensive to treat.

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 12:39:26

EllanVannin would appear to wish I were dead! Nice!

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 12:43:20

Granny23, I said nothing of the sort.I suggest you read the post properly and stop embellishing what I've said just to make trouble.

What do you suppose life-savings are for ? Don't most who have savings offer to pay for a quicker service from the NHS ? I know a few who've used theirs to be fast-tracked. It's not all about expensive holidays and fripperies.
Some have paid for more up-market care in a care home rather than the bog-standard.

It's those who have no savings that should be allowed free NHS and not those who are already well off enough to pay.

It was enough for me to read about 25% of WASPI individuals are millionaires but still awaiting yet more in the way of compensation !!

growstuff Fri 29-Nov-19 12:54:00

Callistemon A little bit of Googling suggests that Australia has a reciprocal healthcare arrangement with the UK, so if you were just visiting Australia, basic healthcare should have been free (unless I've misunderstood).

The same article claims that dental care (even for children) isn't covered by Medicare.

It also says that pensioners have to pay for Medicare, unless they have a very low income.

Also …

Australia has a younger population than the UK, so it doesn't cost so much to treat people in total. However, it's ageing and there are concerns that the Medicare levy will have to be increased.

EllanVannin Fri 29-Nov-19 13:03:34

It wasn't altogether free in Australia when I had treatment as because I had an ongoing problem with high blood-pressure I had to register with medicare nd was given a card to use. Whatever treatment costs were incurred they were subsidised and on production of my card I got a percentage back of what I'd originally paid. Prescriptions of course weren't free as I was under 60 but the cost was twice that of the UK.

I could have received my money back through the insurance policy, but I didn't bother.