Con merchants

Ellenvannin I cannot type on here just what I think about what you have posted because I would likely be kicked off GN, but suffice it to say, your posts show a remarkable lack of humanity, kindness or understanding, your comments to others on here have been quite vile. Also, a few people need to stop deliberately misunderstanding what Corbyn has said or not said. He provided documents which show that there have been discussions regarding selling off/privatising/using outside providers for areas of the NHS. Now, this seriously concerns me, and those of you who think this is nonsense but that everything Johnson tells you is the truth...well, you really need to take a good look at yourselves. The silly comments about people saving up for surgery show a complete inability to comprehend other people's situation and can I remind you Ellenvannin that the cherry picking private medical sector does not provide A & E or intensive care so only those who are fit enough to have surgery without possible need for ITU can qualify to be ripped off for their hip replacements. I am now going out for the afternoon and hopefully will spend time ( at a charity function) with people who have some milk of human kindness in them.

Well said GillT57! I'm busy for the rest of the afternoon, but I think I should read these documents issued by the Labour Party, so that I can make up my own mind.

Saving up for surgery (or other treatment) implies that people have disposable cash. There are obviously people who don't realise that many people (of all ages) have to count every penny - and some who still don't have enough to pay for basics.

What do you suppose life-savings are for?

It is not that you simply don't seem to understand other people's lives but that you choose not to and have no empathy when you are told about them that makes me think you can never be anything other than a Tory in your principles whether you vote or not.

The polishing of your own halo and the disdain you show to those who you lump together when describing a group by something that the majority of that group cannot control should be treated with the contempt you show to others.

One in four adults has no savings, a study has found. Sky-high monthly outgoings and attempts to clear [the] substantial debt before putting money away regularly emerged as the main reasons.

Despite not being able to find money to put away more than half said they wished they could save cash.

When people chose not to think further than their own well-being others will always suffer. I imagine that you got your 25% of women, etc., from the DM as that filthy rag is the only one that published anything near it but it seems you didn't bother to read even what they actually say.

Yes, 25% is used in the headline but they say "of the richest women" not millionaires - no mention of millionaires in fact. And what do these "richest women" earn? They "have an annual disposable income of £37,000".

Yes, this is more than the current median income of £29,400 but if the person is living in one of our cities, particularly London, they will be finding it very hard to save that is assuming they can continue in there jobs until the new pension age.

It also says, trying to con the person who will not check these things, that half of "these women" have "£50,000 of wealth stored in pensions, ..." Does this mean they are rich in your eyes? What it actually means is they may be able to draw a personal pension of about £2,500 while they wait for their state pension.

Why do you never query what you read? Why do you just assume that if it agrees with your own unconscious bias it must be right? People who can't be bothered to find out the truth certainly need not polish their halos. They vote in the wicked and allow them to do wicked things on their behalf.

The NHS is up for sale

We now literally have just a handful of NON ESTABLISHMENT investigative journalists left. Pilger is amongst that little handful. His film about “THE DIRTY WAR ON THE NHS” is showing on the 1st of December .Lets Honour this mans journalism by ensuring everyone knows about it

On 1 Dec, the new John Pilger film, 'The Dirty War on the NHS', will be released in UK cinemas. Pilger investigates the long & often secret campaign to dismantle the UK's pioneering NHS and privatise it off 'by stealth'. Watch the trailer below. thedirtywaronnhs.com

Grany I was just thinking about that film ! I aim to see it. I have been a great admirer of JP for decades.

Bluebelle, yes, my emergency treatment in Australia was free as they have a reciprocal arrangement with the UK for emergency treatment. (As growstuff has said).
It was not a stay in hospital, it was a visit to A&E, likewise DH on another occasion. No doubt if it had meant further treatment I would have had to use my travel insurance.

Anecdotal update on part of the health service in Wales:

Elderly patient goes for dialysis, nurse finds her line is dislodged, tells her it must be reinserted under anaesthetic at another hospital, as she could bleed to death so patient told!) she must go by ambulance. Four hours later still no ambulance and the unit is about to close, so patient is sent by taxi without any escort. Taxi driver does not know his way, patient has to direct him. He dumps her at the door of the hospital, luckily someone comes to the rescue with a wheelchair.

My opinion.You don't have to agree with me. I'm not asking/telling anyone to agree with me, so think what you like.

I've probably said what a lot of others would have said but are too scared to air their views-----for very obvious reasons, like a volley from the same argumentative and abusive-type posters on here who delight in singling out anyone whose views differ from theirs.

My politics differ greatly from you think.

But that is what would happen if it was privatised UG. Are you saying that if it is privatised it will still be free?

Ah. GGmk3
Sure you’re right but it’s not going to be privatised.

So, Move along here. Nothing to see.

growstuff I don't think I made myself clear about PFIs - I don't think they are a particularly good thing. They were short-term gain for long-term pain although I will say that some services did improve when out-sourced but at a cost.

What I was trying to say that, although England went down the expensive PFI route, services do seem better than in Wales which did not.

Very good analogy GracesGran. I've noticed how they are all far worse before an election and I wonder who they think they're kidding. I suppose, though, it must work or they wouldn't do it - so I have to conclude that the UK is largely populated by idiots!

Would you count yourself amongst the majority of the population who are idiots Hetty58?
Or do you consider yourself to be superior to the rest?

EllanVannin My opinion.You don't have to agree with me. I'm not asking/telling anyone to agree with me, so think what you like.

It was nothing to do with opinion. You repeated distorted fact. Are 25% of the Waspi women millionaires - no. You said they were and you were wrong. Simple. 25% ARE NOT MILLIONAIRES THEY EARN £37,000 A YEAR - WHILE THEY CAN WORK. £50,000 IN PENSION SAVINGS ONLY GETS YOU £2,500 A YEAR TO LIVE ON WHEN YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING YOUR PENSION AND MAY NOT BE ABLE TO WORK.

It is quite despicable of the DM or any other person or publisher to lie in this way about the situation of these women. Why do it and why do you come back and say the lie is only an opinion?

If you turn the truth on its head people will tell you you have got it wrong. Do you expect everyone to agree with the lies?

There is a cultural divide in our country. Some of us believe in facts and believe that if they are a part of a discussion we should be able to say where they came from and who was writing about them and THEY SHOULD BE THE TRUTH.

Others believe that if anyone contradicts their opinion, even if it is blatantly untrue they are rude and unfair. What sort of discussion is that!

Callistemon Thanks for the explanation. I take your point.

GracesGran I've stated on another thread that I don't think that paying out a fixed amount to WASPI women is fair - but that really is just my opinion.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that I wish people would deal with facts. Maybe because I'm affected, I've tried hard right from the beginning (1995) to find out the facts and form an opinion based on those facts. I really doesn't help when anybody comes out with lies such as a quarter of WASPI women being millionaires. (Misguided beliefs about the role of NICs don't help either, by the way.)

I'm open to being persuaded that my opinion is wrong, but not when people produce so-called facts which aren't true.

I'm afraid hyperboles, exagerrations and downright lies all seem to be the only weapons used in argument, often to support deep-seated prejudices.

Fairness never seems to apply when governments change these rules.
For instance, a government (can't remember which) took away the Married Couple's Allowance without warning. It was not a large amount but could have made a difference to the standard of living for some, eg pensioners. Someone I know lost this allowance, his neighbour, just a week older than him, retained it as it was retained for those born before April 1935.

Callestemon I live in the East of England and there are plenty of similar stories about our local ambulance service. My own experience has been excellent, but I'm only too aware of some real tales of horror. The East of England Ambulance Service relies very heavily on private providers.

Gordon Brown scrapped it.

I'ce heard three ambulance horror stories in the last fortnight.
None the fault of the paramedics.

But the Married Couple's Allowance was unfair to single people, for whom living costs are often higher because fixed costs can't be shared. It's no longer relevant in an age when women have more rights (and responsibilities) in their own name. My former husband and I never did receive it because both of us worked and earned approximately the same amount. If one of us had earned double and the other hadn't needed to work, we would have received it and that wasn't fair either.

It is my opinion that Gordon Brown was right to scrap it and I think (my opinion) the new allowance should be scrapped too.

Everything is unfair to someone.

We never got it, I thought it was for retired couples.
Both couples I mentioned were retired.

From what I remember, married couples, by default, had an enhanced tax-free allowance. When only the husband worked, this meant he received a bit extra for his dependant spouse. It was possible to opt for individual tax allowances, which was what my ex-husband and I did. I can't remember the exact details, but it meant that we both had slightly increased individual allowances.

This continued for married couples in retirement. Married couples also received an enhanced pension, because the wife (usually) wasn't expected to have built up a pension entitlement in her own right. It was unfair to single people and an anachronism in this day and age, when it is usual for both partners in a marriage to work.