Unman Khan and some light on the issue

I agree with your last comment EV but sadly that genie is out of the bottle.

We need to deal robustly with the consequences.

This terrorist certainly managed to easily fool those in charge of the ‘rehabilitation’ course, it has to be assumed that for most terrorists they will comply with what’s needed to get out as soon as possible.Sentences will have to be longer.Of course they will have to get out at some time, but they will be older and maybe not so determined in their mind about committing more offences and going back to jail or being
shot.

TerriBull opposing the shooting of terrorists uness absolutely essential is perfectly reasonable and in fact desirable. We may view Usman Khan as just a dead terrorist but for some he will now be a martyr to the cause and will have gone straight to paradise. For every terrorist you kill many more may be recruited. We need to recognise that there are second generation Muslim immigrants who feel our society must be destroyed and we need to find out what would help change these attitudes. It's easier to do that if the terrorist is still alive.

trisher yes and why resources spent on rehabilitation are essential.

Whilst I agree rehabilitation is the preferable way - I wonder at what appears to be the gullibility of those running these schemes. I worked in the legal profession and was asked to sit in on an interview with a client, a repeat offender. He poured out a story of his disadvantaged childhood, how sorry he was and how if given a chance he would turn his life around.

The solicitor I was shadowing had to temporarily leave the office. The client looked at me and said "you aren't believing a word of this are you" I replied that I had grown up two streets away from him and had suffered exactly the same disadvantages, as had many of my friends, and we didn't turn to crime.

His reply was that you just had to tell these "liberal do-gooders" (his words) what they wanted to hear and they would believe you every time. Something I think Khan had done.

So, yes, lets have rehabilitation schemes but also be a bit more sceptical of what the offenders are saying

He’s not the first to fool the psychiatrists and parole board and he hadn’t actually murdered anyone before has he?

There are a handful of convicted murderers and rapists who also manipulated people to get early release or parole and then murdered or raped again.

It is nothing new.

As a matter of interest, does anybody know any details of what Khan's "rehabilitation" involved? An awful lot of assumptions are being made, but I'd like to know how the deradicalization programme worked (or didn't work) for him and what was actually tried, before I make any judgement. Facts only, please.

Why aren't all terrorists and any foreign criminals, who commit serious crimes for that matter, immediately deported after release? If they are British citizens then they should be striped of that status while in prison. Better still, bring back the death penalty for all types of murder.

Luckily, the police saved the country the cost of a lengthy trial and another prison sentence, in this case. It doesn't matter which government is in power, the do-gooders will always want shorter prison terms and so called rehabilitation. Corbyn would have just invited him round for a cup of tea and a chat with his allotment salad and suggested he mend his wicked ways and then sent him on his way to murder someone else.

Very interesting and illuminating post Oldwoman thank you.

It’s what a lot of us non-liberal types suspect.

As I posted on the Andrew Marr thread - the Yorkshire Ripper (Sutcliffe) is imprisoned for life, as were Ian Brady, Myra Hindley and the Kray brothers.

What is it about these terrorist murderers do the liberals feel they need to ‘understand’ their mindset? Who cares?

Not me. Lock ‘em up and keep us safe.

Where exactly would you send a British citizen? I think Botany Bay stopped accepting undesirables some time ago.

Quizqueen Khan hadn't murdered anybody when he was sentenced.

By the way, there are currently some right-wingers in prison for plotting to kill people, but they're white. Does your opinion include them?

Where would you send this scum? news.sky.com/story/neo-nazi-jack-renshaw-jailed-for-life-over-plot-to-kill-his-mp-11722061

None of this is any consolation to a chap in prison who's spent the last 34 years as an entirely innocent man !
Paperwork/ letters show who the real killer was but is being withheld. This man must feel sick when he sees such prisoners going free.
The law is an ass and the justice system broken.

The absolute heroes who tackled Khan and prevented further carnage were, according to reports, ex-offenders attending the same course.
So it could be argued that the rehabilitation programmes do work in many cases.
I don't agree with a sentence being given which is halved, I can see the arguments why a longer sentence is given then reduced, but perhaps more time should be spent on rehabilitation while the offender is still in prison instead of early release.

The Secret Barrister, who I posted about on another thread, said that automatic release* is no longer in force today* but Kahn's sentence, and his sentence as altered by the Appeal judge, was imposed before the new regulations came into force and the new regulations were not applied to then existing sentences.

I just heard on the radio that the vest was visible from the start, inside the hall. Those men are true heroes.

How did he get into a venue like that, on a course designed to rehabilitate ex-prisoners, or to assess how their rehabilitation is going, with a knife?
Let alone a suicide vest.

Surely common sense should dictate that security should be reasonably tight? Having had my handbag searched on several occasions just visiting a tourist venue, I can't understand this at all.

Yes I thought that Callistemon, the general public have to hand over handbags/rucksacks etc. to be scanned if visiting a museum or the like. It seems very laissez faire of the organisers not to have put the participants through a thorough search, given their histories.

its disgraceful that Boris is using it for election reasons and blaming Labour. He has had enough time and chances to change it.

I believe it should be life, no release, for these sort of crimes.

They didn't dare; they did't want to upset the ex-offenders - probably PC madness.

Probably didn't want to offend them, against their human rights.

I do hope the Management of the Venue will be sued. As said; how on earth did the jihadist (I refuse to honour him with a name) get in with two knives and a what looked like a suicide vest? We need answers.

Jolbrook. I find that a ludicrous comment. Fishmongers Hall is a public building where people are invited, enter, go about their business and leave again. Indeed, there are events that they may enter without invitation. The management will be aware of the need for security but will also need to balance this will public acceptance as well as the cost of providing the equipment and staff necessary. Imagine having to pay £x extra the next time you go M&S - that’s after being searched on the way in.

Please listen to Jack Merrit's father, who speaks with real moral authority.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-london-bridge-terror-attack-jack-merritt-father-daily-mail-a9228886.html

jolbrook's and Firecracker's posts sound like the kind of thing spouted by bores at weddings - I'm sure we've all come across the kind of people that nobody wants to sit next to, so they huddle together, chuntering to themselves, while everybody else has fun.