Will the remainers admit defeat?

Spot on Smileless, we have see this last year minority groups causing gridlock in the HoC. Nobody wants that. People are not willing to accept a majority vote any more.

And they are the very people who claim this country is undemocratic Chestnut.

In democratic countries many parties are represented in their parliaments and they have to co-operate for the good of the country,

You mean countries like Israel, Belgium or Italy? Israel is about to have its third election in a year. Belgium was without a government for 549 days because the parties could not agree. Italy has had at least 61 adminstrations since 1945.

And I seem to remember that our coalition wasn't exactly the mosts successful government we have ever seen.

And I forgot to mention Northern Ireland. Very nearly three years without an effective government because the power sharers have fallen out.

I believe that the coalition government of 2010-2015 was very much better than the unfettered Tory government of the last four years.

Yes, but what about all the others?

" Cannot be worse than the last three or so years of wrangling, back biting, stalling." Quoted.

Yes it can! Have you forgotten Spain, Germany, and Italy when people were so disaffected they voted for charismatic right wingers?

The country has not voted to leave. This year both in the EU election and the general election, most voters supported parties which were either pro-remain or pro-second referendum, confirming what polls have shown for the past three years.

Read my original post varian. The country has voted three times to leave.
Will the remainers admit defeat? Clearly the answer is no for some people.
Were you banging your drum in 1997 when Tony Blair won his first election with only 43.2%? Or do you only bang it when the result is not what you want?

Today is the day of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill this morning.

So here it is, Merry Xmas
Everybody's having fun
Look to the future now
It's only just begun!

??

Chestnut - I think the situation is rather more nuanced than defeat or victory. Yes we will be leaving the EU - whether that will prove to be a good or bad thing will play out over the decades to come. It is interesting to see that the Conservative government have already take the opportunity to water down workers rights in the Bill. No-one can know for sure what will happen. Most of us have already moved on considerably from the Referendum result to try to prepare to deal with the consequences, good or bad, for the younger members of our families.

Well said, Greta8. To claim victory at this stage based on ”Get Brexit Done” is surely foolish. There are too many imponderables and the notion that the UK will have the upper hand in future negotiations with the EU and the rest of the world is equally foolish, in my opinion. What is lacking is a sense of realism.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=578230243013515

Well, I am a remainer who will fight tooth and nail to remain. The prospect of remaining in an undemocratic, divided, Brexited UK feels me with dread, while the prospect of a free Scotland. an equal member of the EU in her own right, gives me hope.

Will people now stop dividing our society into Remainers and Leavers and focus instead on “haves” and “havre-nots” and concentrate their energies on social injustice here and abroad.
I am sick of the infighting and backbiting and jibes and recriminations. Look at Syria, look at the refugees risking their lives in little boats and realise that whatever your views on Brexit - there are so many so much worse off. ?

There are thousands of other issues to consider MawB but this thread is about the referendum and election results and for that we are leavers or remainers, with some people still unable to accept that the result was not what they wanted.

And my point Chestnut is a plea for these divisions not to be perpetuated further.
Banging on o a variety of threads gets us nowhere

There is a difference between the Tories winning an election on the basis of FPTP and saying the country voted to leave. The first is true. The second is untrue.

MawB Fri 20-Dec-19 10:40:44
Will people now stop dividing our society into Remainers and Leavers and focus instead on “haves” and “havre-nots” and concentrate their energies on social injustice here and abroad.
I am sick of the infighting and backbiting and jibes and recriminations. Look at Syria, look at the refugees risking their lives in little boats and realise that whatever your views on Brexit - there are so many so much worse off. ?

EXACTLY!

Chestnut: ...some people still unable to accept that the result was not what they wanted.

I accept the result, Chestnut, but what I can't accept is that 52% of voters necessarily got it right. So, will you now accept that your vote to leave the EU may not turn out to be the right decision when all is said and done.

Well stop posting on a thread which is about the referendum then!

WHERE does it say its about the referendum?

I had to turn the tv off this morning as Johnson and his smug front bench outlined what they had in mind for our future. There is little I can do to change this most unwelcome result, and with no effective opposition I can see no chance of this ghastly juggernaut of deregulation, demolition of rights and broken promises being stopped, especially as inexplicably so many people who will be far worse off have voted for it. I feel sadness for many who have been taken in by the fake promises, but even more sad for those of us who did not vote for it but will have to live with the result of other people's decisions for a long time. This is bad enough, but to have people on here who should know better, tell me to 'get over it' or to crow about the result has upset me beyond belief. Merry Christmas.

Greta - will you now accept that your vote to leave the EU may not turn out to be the right decision when all is said and done.
All will not be said and done for quite some time. It will take a few years before the benefits of leaving become apparent, and there will of course be some adverse effects too. Change always brings both good and bad, the question is whether the good outweighs the bad.

* the question is whether the good outweighs the bad*, not quite the sunny uplands that the Johnson cabinet are promising eh? I am beyond despair that people can be so flippant about the future for me and my family.

Please stop repeating the myth that the country voted to leave. It was, as Greta says above, 52% of those who voted. Too narrow a margin, which has inevitably led to a large number of people feeling disenfranchised and that's where the anger resonates from.

Would you invest in anything and wait to see whether it works or not? I echo the sentiments of GillT57 and I dread the day when, as I've cited on other threads, my DGS becomes a 'foreigner'.

I note the plan to bring Drs and nurses from 'overseas' is the term used, in order to fulfil their promise of more professionals in the NHS. What a farce this has become.