Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

Callistemon Quote [ Poor Grandad, you're doing OK. Send for reinforcements.] End Quote.

Callistemon, I have never asked for or required reinforcements at any time in my life. I have always retained my core beliefs although my circumstances have very much changed in my now long life.

In that, I have never been a "political flip-flopper" with no real foundation beliefs as yourself and others on this thread admit to being.

Well that's one perspective. History may also reflect on the previous election where this saviour of the labour party also failed to win an election ( where brexit wasnt the dominant issue) against the worst Tory election campaign anyone has ever seen.

Corbyn supporters continue to state that Brexit 'was the over riding debate' in the recent election. As if Brexit is the main if not the only reason that place called 'the north' didn't vote for Labour.

As someone who lives in 'the north' I can only repeat something I've posted previously. The first thing former Labour voters told those canvassing for local Labour MP's or candidates, was "we can't vote for that man, Jeremy Corbyn". Corbyn was disliked and mistrusted and that was the major reason given for not voting Labour, even by people who had voted Labour all their lives. People talked about what they saw as his dislike of the armed services, his perceived lack of concern about defence of this country, the fact that new policies were being announced daily which people just didn't believe could be funded. The suggestion by Labour, that Brexit could be drawn out longer was disliked, even by many who had voted Remain but now felt the outcome had to be respected and the country enabled to move on.

Urmstongran, in regard to your post-@20:53, who knows what the electorate may be prepared to accept and favour following five years of Brexit, deregulation and unbridled capitalism.

A political party with a strong left-wing stance and policies could well be just what the electorate may be looking for.

It is not the gaining votes in the present that the Labour Party requires to be looking at but three to four years down the line.

And who would wish to predict Britains economic future in these very uncertain times?

Oh,,Grandad there I was paying you a compliment and you are so rude in return.

How sad.

A voter to a door knocker for the Labour Party

‘What has Corbyn promised today, he will raise the dead ?’

Door knocker, ‘wish he could, we may win ‘.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Could you please tell me where I have said I am a 'political flip flopper' with no real beliefs?

I have said I have voted Liberal, then Lib Dem for years, apart from voting for labour once, sorry twice.

Yes, I do have foundation beliefs, but the political parties tend to change theirs.

That is why people do sometimes change their voting preferences and why we have a change of government, they read the manifestos. However, I fear we will be stuck with the Tories for ever if the Labour Party as you prefer it remains stuck in the past and does not learn from its mistakes.
It will become a distant, nostalgic memory unfortunately and not even an effective opposition.

There is nothing intrinsically moral in always sticking to the same beliefs. I respect people who are able to change their mind it shows maturity. I am quite frightened by people who are utterly convinced that they are right.

And those who endlessly pontificate the same mantras - even when the evidence is that they are failing.

I fear if Rebecca Long Bailey is elected leader that Labour as it is at present will become part of history.

Several of us on here have always thought that Starmer would be a more effective leader, measured, educated and with a formidable intellect.
Strong and enough of 'his own man' not to be 'owned' by Momentum

Callistemon certainly has the ability to contribute to a real debate, thank heaven she / he doesn’t write epistles which bore many .

Starmer may win, but momentum are stalking universities already.

Thank you Anniebach!

I don't know why a jokey and friendly post elicited such a nasty, spiteful response.


But you've been on the receiving end yourself often enough too.

Very odd indeed.

I understand where you’re coming from Grandad1943 but what if (I believe & hope) Brexit is a resounding success? Labour will be toast - unless it adopts a different stance, surely?

Really annie? How do you know that.?

GGm3 , you could always join one of the Labour Party forums.

I could Iam. Or I could just give up on social media. I'm not sure which would be best.

Ah seriously GG13 I’d like a robust opposition to Boris. In a democracy I think being held to account is very important. Hold his feet to the fire as it were.

I believe you UG but it seems that the opposition many want is one that is just like the government we have. I don't think it's just GN by the way, I heard a phone-in/email/ programme on the radio the other day where one person contacted them to say that "the last thing the country needed was a left of centre leader of the Labour Party"!. I think some on here would agree. You then have to ask, what they think is the point of the LP. It would be interesting to know.

Urm I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve no idea about the timescales all this is happening within. I know of course that the end of this year is supposed to be the end of the transition period but surely that will be too soon to know if Brexit is a success - whatever that means. Apart from trade deals, (and how long will it be for their impact on the economy to be judged) another big issue is going to be the impact of immigration controls and whether we can meet the needs for the lower paid jobs needed in the economy. There are always unintended consequences to all policy changes

Whatever Starmer’s past record , poor or otherwise, I thought him very unimpressive on Andrew Marr last Sunday.
Jess Philips isn’t PM material really, however good an MP, I can’t see her on the world stage for example.
The far left of the LP will be voting for RLB.....but she isn’t impressive either! Plus the fact that she is Corbyn in a skirt.

How about the LP use the next 6 weeks to give each of the candidates a chance to stand at the Despatch Box and see what they are capable of landing on the Tories instead of Corbyn missing the usual open goals!

Or better still;

Just had a further thought.

Using this new ITV show as inspiration why not dress the Labour candidate in disguise and muffle the voice?

Then play reveal the candidate at the end of PMQs!

Wonder who would win? Interesting thought.

Urm bring an effective LOTO will involve far more than a good performance at the dispatch box - as well you know.

Totally agree suziewoozie I think it’ll be more like 3 years before a true assessment of Brexit can be made. By then the LP will be right up against the wire.

They’ll need to be match ready.

This leadership election is very important. No pressure then!

I do sw it was just a little lighthearted banter. I think I go a bit silly after 10pm.....
?

Perhaps I should step back from the keyboard. I can’t blame wine either as I’ve not touched a drop since Christmas Eve!

Light hearted banter is strictly against the rules of this thread Urmstongran!!

Very often Callistemon , quite usual from many of the far left

I shall desist forthwith Calle!