Sensible discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls

So, after all the above, I'm in accord with those who favour Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips
I think they would make a good team.

Labour has 2 choices.

It continues with far left / Big State policies or returns to the centre/centre left ground.

The far left / Big State utopian vision was resoundingly rebuffed in the 80's when the Trotskyite Militant Tendency was giving it a go and it has been overwhelmingly rejected in 2019 when Momentum gave it a go.

The choice is whether to stick with the old Trotskyite and new Momentum vision of smashing Capatlism and creating the Big State or going back to the middle ground which will inevitably return many to the fold.

It's as ear as a pike staff.

It is rubbish to believe the gender/geographical,/social background of the candidate is important, it only has a small bearing on the individual vote probably.

It is where the candidate sits either far left or centrist that will decide how /who will be elected.

Do you want the same under the likes of Rebecca Long Bailey/ Keir Starmer/ Richard Burgon/ Angela Raynor/ Ian Lavery or who ever decides to put themselves forward or do you want to return to the centre / centre left under the likes of Lisa Nandy / Jess Phillips / Stephen Kinnock / Wes Streeting if they put their names forward.

As for Emily Thornberry I honestly do not know where her heart sits but I don't think it is actually far left of the Party. She is Marmite and would be a brilliant choice for the other parties as she is not particularly viewed as a pleasant individual by many nor could she unite the party one way or tuther probably.

Return to centre please

Keir Starmer has said :-

" What Corbyn bought to the Labour party was a change of emphasis - radicalism that really matters - we need to build on that, not oversteer and go back to a bygone age."

So if you vote for Keir Starmer does that inform you enough it could well be the same old policies trotted out under a different cloak.?

Is it true that Keir Starmer, the LP brexit spokesman, was told to shut up and keep out of the way during the campaign?

Anniebach Not hindsight on my part - I've always known it (re WFTC) and have banged on about it for years. When I've explained it to friends their response has been " I didn't know that". This is before 2009 when I moved to France. I also emailed the then Shadow Chancellor to ask why the LP weren't publicising this. I received an automatic email in response telling me that he couldn't deal with my email because I wasn't a constituent.

Blair stood down in 2007 , who was the shadow chancellor you emailed Dinahmo

Can't remember whether it was Alan Johnson or Ed Balls. Email long gone from my computer so can't check

Dinahmo they was no labour shadow chancellor from 1997
to 2010, you must have emailed the Tory shadow chancellor

Anniebach If you re-read my post I said I was explaining things to my friends before I moved to France in 2009. You have just assumed that I emailed whomever before then but that was not the case.Aland Johnson was Shadow chancellor between October 2010 was succeeded by Ed Balls in January 2011.

I certainly wouldn't have emailed the Tory Osborne because he wouldn't have been interested.

Thank you explaining Dinahmo,

Calistemon and you point about possible future contenders for LP leadership is???

Read my posts, it could give you a hint.

POGS that was not the gist of Starmer’s article and you know it. And yes, he was asked to keep out of election debate. But then so was Mogg.

That is asking you why not who?

Dinahmo Are you doing the same now with UC? Especially in the context of self-employment. About one in six workers is now self-employed and they're locked out of Universal Credit unless they earn the equivalent of minimum wage x 30 (hours), including those over 60, which is a change this government has brought in. This means that every time the minimum wage goes up, people receive less. In other words, increasing the minimum wage ( much lauded government initiative) doesn't actually benefit the low paid and in the case of the self-employed makes them worse off.

The amount which is "clawed back" from earnings also means that, in practice, nobody in work without children even gets anything from Universal Credit.

It's all smoke and mirrors. WFTC, for all its flaws, was better for the low paid than Universal Credit. I've done the sums. Its abolition has been a contributory factor to the rise in family/child poverty and why the majority of people now suffering poverty have at least one member of the family in work.

Not only is the implementation of UC bad, but there all sorts of loopholes which employers can use to escape paying the living wage. The Conservatives and their supporters won't tell you that!

Yehbutnobut My "candidate" for future Labour leader would have to be somebody who actually understands the maths of benefits for the low paid and cut through the hype.

YBN

What article?

I never mentioned him being kept out of the election debate!

I have mentioned ' possible' candidates but so far only Thornberry I believe has come forward so nobody can say who.

What was actually wrong with Labour's policies POGs?

They were presented in a cack-handed way and I disagreed with the promises to WASPI women, the abolition of student fees (but not reintroduction of grants for the poorest) and wholesale renationalistaion.

However, I still suspect that people objected because they were "owned" by Corbyn/McDonnell. They were unpopular because they were seen as not patriotic enough and people didn't understand the economics of investment.

So who would you suggest as an alternative POGs? Or would you be happy with a one-nation state?

Ed Balls wasn't Chancellor in 2011.

Capitalism and the "Big State" are not incompatible. It's a ludicrous claim that it's either/or.

George Osborne was the Shadow Chancellor in 2009.

Growstuff

I thought I should explain myself. I'm a tax consultant working mainly for artists and crafts people. I know about WFTC because some of my young clients claimed it when they were starting out on the self employed route. I can't think of any of them that are claiming benefits now.

However, whilst I am aware of UC and how appalling the system now is, the only person I am aware of who is claiming it is the daughter of some old friends who recently had her benefits halved. A few months ago she had to be re-assessed and the only question asked related to her physical well being. However, she has mental health issues which were not addressed at all despite letters from her doctors.

My friends sought the advice of the Citizens' Advice Bureau and also a mental health charity and the decision was appealed. Fully armed, they went to a tribunal and the decision was overturned.

Shades of I Am Daniel Blake except that the outcome was different. The young woman is lucky because her parents are articulate and aware (LP members) and were able to gather together the information required and put a good case together.

Growstff I wrote shadow chancellor.