Well done Lawrence Fox!

The problem is, Eloethan, is that this has all been swept under the carpet for too long. You can stop people expressing their feelings but you can't stop them having those feelings.
Now, it seems the tide is turning and we are at last being able to speak out, instead of being told to pretend there isn't a problem.

This will soon apply to other areas of society, we are saying 'enough is enough'.

Enough is enough of what?

Jura2 I am perfectly aware that racism comes in a variety of forms. I am also aware that white privileged male/females are subject to racism also, but unfortunately it is taken with the proverbial pinch of salt.

What I would like to see is an equal society whereby people are just people, not the colour of their skin.

We have a wide circle of friends of all nationalities, and God willing we have many more years of fun and friendship ahead.

Oh don’t be so ridiculous GG it’s not about that as you well know - it’s about a self entitled stupid privileged prick thinking he can categorically state that something is not racist and shouting down a BAME woman. It was nothing to do with understanding, empathy or whatever. I doubt LF could even spell empathy let alone express it.

Nightsky2 of course he is allowed an opinion what he isn't allowed to do is to consider that his life experiences have in some way given him an insight into racism, they haven't. And in dismissing the allegation completely he actually weakened his argument. All those who think he did a good thing should now watch what is happenig with the increase in far right thinking and worry about what he has actually done (and I accept he hasn't a clue about such things) to empower and justify the vile views of people like the EDL.

I have read through this thread with interest. Many are disagreeing with LF and his background and colour have frequently been mentioned.

I have personally experienced racism and can confirm it comes from all sections - black and white.

I married an immigrant at a time when it was definitely frowned upon. Whilst many people were supportive we both suffered from extremely unpleasant comments (I remember being asked if my husband was also my pimp - somehow they had assumed because he was an immigrant only a prostitute would have married him). Members of the black community frequently told me that "my face didn't fit" in the area we lived in. Before we were married my husband's friends and some of his family told him he should find someone from his own community.

It is a mistake to believe that racism only works one way

Thank you WadesNan- must have been hard. My mum came from a very Bourgeois Protestant background, divorced from her first society marriage, with a child- and fell in love with my dad, a Catholic who was an excellent worker at grand-dad's factory and highly respected - until they fell in love. They went through hell from both sides. No 'colour' involved.

No-one, but no-one, on this thread has stated anywhere that racism on works one way.

wade have people really said on this thread that racism only works one way? Surely the issue is the value of someone’s opinion ( or in LF’s case categorical assertion) on whether it exists ot not. I’ve never lived in a black community as a white person and would never challenge what you’ve said about your experiences there. It’s also a question of degree - BAME people are much more likely than white people to experience racism. And as I’ve said before, it’s not as simple as being called names or having unpleasant things said to you, but about the invidious , nuanced often institutionalised racism

ladymuck You're right - but what has been "swept under the carpet" is the fact that non-white people in this country have been subjected to discrimination in the job and housing market - and in many other areas of public life.

Various studies have shown that when people with surnames that suggest they have non-white origins apply for jobs, even though their qualifications may be superior to other applicants, they have far less chance of being short-listed than people with typically British or European surnames. Estate agents have been recorded informing colleagues that certain landlords have specified non-white potential tenants should not be put forward for consideration. These are FACTS.

You say "enough is enough". Enough of what exactly? Enough of non-white people bleating on about how they are discriminated against - even though research has shown that they actually ARE discriminated against? Enough of people stating that there is no discrimination and racism within our society, even though there most patently is? Basically, enough of hearing the truth and of acting upon it?

What I say is - enough of people like Laurence Fox who has no clue whatsoever about the lives of the average person - let alone the average non-white person - and his pontificating about issues on which he has no experience whatsoever.

"Enough is enough" - for me, that means stop playing the race card when it is abundantly clear that "race" is not involved in the criticism of the individual. I think we all know that racism exists in many forms and I haven't seen any posts on this thread that actually deny it exists - and yes, of course it should be challenged. BUT, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, when the "race card" is overplayed, as it has been in recent months, then the argument against racism is actually undermined, because people in general get so sick of being accused of being racist, when they are not, and racism isn't actually the reason for the initial criticism or disagreement. By all means, call it racism when it IS racism, but stop calling it racism when it isn't. Those that do so are doing their argument no favours at all.

Incidentally there was an audience member on QT that same evening who said she didn’t believe any of the criticism aimed at MM had been racist. She described herself as mixed race which she was. Does that mean her opinion is better informed than LF’s?

The expression "playing the race card" is in itself racist amazing that some don't realise that.
An interesting history-
The real point about race cards is that claiming their existence is itself deeply racist. The idea first seems to have entered the lexicon in the 1960s, when “the race card” was used to describe the ways in which rightwing politicians weaponised fears about black people to gain votes – such as the 1964 Conservative parliamentary candidate for Smethwick reportedly warning his prospective constituents: “If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour.” These days, it is more frequently deployed to delegitimise the voices of people on the receiving end of those narratives. Either way, the one consistent thing seems to be that it always involves setting up people of colour to lose.

What vacuous lives some must live when it appears every waking moment is spent on how they can find fault.

just re-read this thread and noticed the early post from Evianer 'Meghan is not black, she is mixed-race.'

does that make a diference? Well in many ways, people who are mixed race (and let's not kid ourselves, we are only talking about the ones who look mixed race - I know many mixed race people who have 'turned out' paler than their sibblings- and this influenced their individual life, personal and professional - in our family) - often experience a very insidious double racism, from both sides.

Read Trevor Noah's 'Born a Crime', for instance. Even during the terrible years of Apartheid, those who were mixed race were even more (if it was not bad enough) discriminated against- than Blacks.

So, in trying to make a point about racism, I am now a racist, according to you trisher. That is not what I meant about "playing the race card" at all, and you know it. What would you call it, when someone claims they have been criticised due to the colour of their skin, when it is in fact criticism based on something else entirely? Maybe you have a different term for that? Your response is typical and is a good example of why a sensible and reasonable discussion on racism descends into mud-slinging. Try reading my post again and maybe appreciate that my argument has some merit.

How will we know though? Some of the criticism of Meghan may be because of her actions but some will be racist. It's just a fact of life. I actually think most of the criticisms of her are because she is a woman who wont do as she is told and lots of people dont like that.

Oh calm down Opal. trisherdidn’t call you a racist. Can’t you get the difference between saying someTHING is racist and someONE is racist?

Opal it's quite simple make your point wihout using hackneyed expressions with racist connections. Perhaps try saying I don't believe race is involved or something similar. Is it 'mud slinging' to try and clarify the real meaning and origins of an expression? I don't understand why you would feel the need to use such an expression.

Forgetting Fox for a minute, how many agree that the phrase ‘lets call this what it is, it is racism’ is correct. That racism and only racism is responsible for Megan’s attitude to living in this country.

I don’t. I think it is multiple issues but I would be interested in how many think it is all about racism.

I think racism is involved but so is misogyny. The only good female royal needs to smile a lot, breed and not have an opinion or a career, if she doesn't, and she happens to be mixed race as well she's had it.

I feel it would help if all discriminatory remarks were just considered plain 'rude'! Because that's what they are and this covers every comment that makes the listener think they are considered less worthy than the ill mannered oaf uttering it.

Spot on trisher

I think if Meghan were not mixed-race, she would still have got the same reception. She is American, she is an actress (remember the dubious reputation actresses used to have) and she has been married and divorced more than once already.

That is quite enough to make her an unwelcome choice for the son of our darling Princess Diana.

I've just realised that my post could be construed as anti-American...that wasn't intentional. I just feel that someone so close to the throne should have chosen a British girl.

Ah of course, another arranged marriage- like that of his mum and dad - that ended well

Incredible comment.