Poverty in the UK - disappearing according to Boris

Indeed they should annepl. But that doesn't seem to be their main driver does it, sadly.

I so agree with your point Growstuff on correlation of amounts of NI paid and pension received especially now with the new pension.

My DH retired at 65on the old pension plus some SERPS/SSP2 and I will receive almost as much as him when I get mine in 2021 at 66. This in spite of him paying in a darn sight more than me as I only worked part time - a little unfair I feel.

This thread has been quite an eye-opener.
There seems to be a lot of resentment towards the wealthy, even when their wealth has been acquired through hard work, good investments or personal talent.
Even though they pay high taxes and provide employment, you still think they have no right to enjoy the rewards of their hard work?

To be fair, there is resentment and ignorance about those claiming benefits.
Faces full of make up, playing bingo, and so on.

No one minds them enjoying their wealth. At least I don't. BUT those that are wealthy are no more likely to have worked very hard than the poor. Hard work is no guarantee of wealth. I only have to look at my mother for that. She slogged day, and night at times and is still living in a council flat, in poverty.

By all means, enjoy the wealth. But pay into your country. STOP tax avoiding. And also do not bitch about the poor being lazy or feckless.

Being wealthy is down to luck.

BEFORE anyone mentions education, British state schools are in chaos, thanks to the academy system. The children of the poor have VERY little chance of educating themselves out of poverty these days.

I didn't intend to mention my own personal circumstances, but I'm on Pension Credit and feel very guilty about it.

Don’t ever feel bad about claiming something you’re entitled to ladymuck that is exactly what the system is for.

I’m a firm believer in people who CAN pay doing so for those who can’t (for whatever reason).

ladymuck, if you need it, claim it. THAT is what the system should be for!

EXACTLY Pantglas2. I’m a firm believer in people who CAN pay doing so for those who can’t (for whatever reason).

Until I left the UK I paid a lot of tax and NI. Rightly so. NOT for that bunch of crooks that are in power to decimate the system and throw people who previously were coping into poverty.

BEFORE anyone mentions education, British state schools are in chaos, thanks to the academy system
Correction, Gagajo, the English state schools are in chaos. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales have their own systems and have had no truck with academies - though many, if not most Scottish secondary schools are, and have been for centuries, Academies- I attended one myself!

PS gagajo, I couldn't agree more with your subsequent post.

Apologies annodomini. Yes, I meant England. I could weep for English students. So many bright, sharp youngers. 35 to a class. Almost exclusively taught by new teachers (nothing wrong with new teachers, but a balance is needed of fresh/new and experience) .

MadeinYorkshire The adopted daughter of some old friends had her benefits reviewed last year. She has mental health problems and all the questions concerned her physical health - could she make a meal, dress herself etc etc. This is despite letters from her GP and a mental health professional. My friends attended the tribunal on her behalf, armed with masses of information and the assessors' decision was overturned.

The daughter wouldn't have been able to cope on her own.

Is there someone you could get to help you with the actual hearing? As others have said, contact the CAB, all the charities that you can think of for advice and also your MP. My friends' MP is Emily Thornberry and she was very helpful.

I hope that you and your daughter are successful.

Dollymac, annepl and growstuff

Thanks Ladies - I am in a peculiar position as I am asset rich and very cash poor - I have a lot of equity in my house but no money to maintain it sadly - it is my castle and my prison! The Council think that I have enough money to contribute to my care costs, even though I have proven several times that I don't and now the Child maintenance people are after me for money which I 'apparently' didn't pay my ex husband from when my daughter had to go to live with him when my health meant I was in and out of hospital a great deal - BUT this was 10 years or more ago - she is 27 on Tuesday! They have ignored 2 letters so far asking for dates etc as I was paying him certainly and I want to check my records - only fair surely? It's like going up to someone in the street and asking them to give you money but won't tell them why!!

We will take her PIP to tribunal if needs be, and we have help to do that if the need arises which I am sure it will!

I am still on DLA and there will at some point be an 'invitation' from the DWP to apply for PIP instead - this is truly terrifying as they have of course 'moved the goalposts.' IF I were to lose my car then I would be housebound, bus stops are too far away for me to walk to anyway. I can manage very short distances but just standing and moving makes me feel sick and gives me pain. Interestingly, having now been with my daughter, the PIP Assessment Centre is in the centre of town - no parking and cameras all around - to enter the shortest way is via steps, or you can go the flat way round which is of course a much longer distance, and will be over the prescribed 20m rule - so basically, if you can actually get in, you have lost your enhanced mobility! Then there is a revolving door to contend with! No-one on Reception to open the disabled doors for chairs either .... and of course there is no parking nearby, there is a car park, but not for that building, it is a very small public one which is filled by 0800am. If you don't turn up, you will lose it anyway. If I lost that part of my income then I would literally have an annual income of £7362 rather than just below £12k as it is at present - the loss amounted to about £4K pa when DD came back to live with me.

The Minimum Income calculator came up with -

Your household
Adult
You don’t have enough to meet what the public views as a minimum standard of living
The details you’ve provided show your weekly outgoings exceed your household income by

£59.76 per week

This is based on your actual earnings of £12,000 per year.

About one in four people in the UK, like you, do not reach the Minimum Income Standard.

It then directs me towards the DWP and Govt Help! Ha, ha!

{and THAT doesn't include the Council Care contribution, nor the Child Maintenance payment which would add a further £31.92, making my weekly LOSS £92 a week - is is actually more than that, but that was a basic calculation. I have kept going due to a small pension draw down which ends this year so something MUST change in 2020. I have been asking my Mortgage Lender for help now for 10 years and I am now on my second complaint, so hopefully something will occur this time - I could downsize although I only have less than 900sq ft as it is, but in order to do that in my area I would need to be able to keep some of my mortgage, although that would mean I had more income for the council to take for my care costs!

I have been down the roads of CAB, Stepchange, Shelter, and Christians Against Poverty and investigated Equity Release - no good for me.

The Mortgage Lender has very kindly sent me links to the Samaritans and Mind however after I threatened suicide it seemed was my only option!!

I cannot win I don't think - if anyone has any bright ideas, please let me know!!

No bright ideas. The system can be brutal.

If you're worried about the transition to PIP, you can find out when you're likely to be "invited to apply" by googling. At least you can prepare.

Just wondering if you've considered Rent a Room if you have a spare bedroom?

To the poster with the relative who has mental health difficulties - the PIP questions DO consider the impact of mental health on care needs, including the "mobility" questions.

If you haven't had help from CAB or similar, please get it.

Dinahmo my MP would be useless I suspect - it was Claire Perry, wrote to her a few times and she took no notice! Doubt the chinless wonder that replaced her would be any help, but if needs be I will .... The MP in my nearest town is Justin Tomlinson, the Minister for the Disabled, ha, ha!

I am running out of charities, but we do have someone that will fight it for us if the result is poor, although we are paying for that help, and they are very good - she should be entitled to it but they will lie through their teeth sometimes in order to get their bonuses - qualified Health Professionals - we got either a nurse, physio, or Paramedic - no-one experienced in Mental Health at that centre at all .... one of the main issues is 'planning a journey' - now yes most of us can do that to somewhere we know, she asked if they put in a 'diversion' to the place she goes to for some therapy, would she know what to do - well it is a straight road, just around the corner from us, you couldn't physically do a diversion anyway, so she said yes - which was the correct answer, BUT she wouldn't be able to do it if she didn't know where she was in the first place - so that will be an interesting one to fight!

There have been cases where these 'health professionals' have asked things like "when did your Cerebral Palsy start, do you think your leg will have grown back by then, why haven't you managed to kill yourself then?' so it's a wonder anyone gets through the process when you have that level of competency to get past!

Hi oldgimmer1

Yes I have considered the Rent a Room Scheme, however the DWP would only let me keep £20 a week of the income received, and it would mean having to heat the house more, put the oven on etc so I wouldn't be gaining anything - the other thing that would prevent me doing that is that I sleep in the kitchen! Yes I know it's bizarre, but I haven't managed to sleep in a bed for about 10 years now so sleep in a recliner. I even tried a proper hospital bed that I had to send back - so anyone needing to use the bathroom in the night would have to come into the kitchen where I will be snoring like a train! For £20 a week it's not worth changing my lifestyle!

Exactly Pantglas. You will probably receive a similar amount of state pension as I will, except I will have 48 years of contributions in my own name, worked full-time for nearly all my working life and was a high-earner for some of it. I won't (and can't) receive the full amount of state pension because I contributed to occupational pension schemes.

That does mean that I will receive occupational pensions, but they take me just over the threshold for Pension Credit, which I will never be eligible for.

That wouldn't be too bad, except I was forced to sell my house a few years ago (similar situation to MadeinYorkshire) and have to pay rent (currently £825 per month). I can't receive housing benefit because my rent is over the limit for Local Housing Allowance, although it's one of the cheapest private rentals in my area. I will have about £400 per month remaining for bills, food, council tax, etc.

I was a single parent, working full-time for fifteen years. During that time my former husband managed to squirm out of paying me any child maintenance, so I paid for my children on my own, with just a very small amount of child tax credit.

My contributions to NI and occupational pension schemes will mean that I will not be better off in retirement than somebody who has paid much less.

ladymuck Of course you're entitled to Pension Credit, which is a means-tested benefit, but it does mean that you haven't worked as hard as I have during my life - or, at least, you haven't paid for your pension. I don't begrudge you that, but maybe you will think twice before accusing others of not working hard.

Despite hard work, careful planning etc. etc., life can unexpectedly throw sh*t at people. I'm lucky because I'm reasonably resilient and have a skill which I can still "sell" -others are not so fortunate and have worse physical/mental health than I do.

I want to live in a country, where there's a safety net when people are unlucky. It would be an ever better country, if people who have generally been lucky weren't so smug.

By the way ladymuck I don't resent those who are wealthy through their own hard work and talent. Some of them are my clients and I'm glad they can afford to pay for me. Most of them are kind, decent people - I haven't a clue whether they pay their taxes. I don't discuss my personal circumstances with them, but I suspect most of them know that I don't have much and they don't patronise me - after all, I can sell them something they want.

However, I do resent people who think there's a perfect match between working hard and wealth and blame the poor for being undeserving and feckless. There most certainly isn't a correlation! As an allegedly civilised society, I feel very strongly that support should be available for the most vulnerable.

Growstuff exactly - renting around here would be over twice what I am paying for my Mortgage so I am desperately trying
to avoid going down that route!

My Mum was in the same position re Pension Credit - £15 a month over the threshold and has really struggled since my Dad died when she was the same age as me 57

I know you don't want to lose your house (I didn't and I still shed a few tears about it), but have you been to your local council's housing department and explained your predicament?

I have a lovely landlord, but I won't be able to stay in this house forever and I will find it almost impossible to rent anywhere else because my income is so low, although I have always paid the rent. I can't carry on working for much longer. I'm going down the route of applying for council accommodation. I never thought I'd be in this situation, but I think it's my only option. Believe me, it upsets me greatly.

However, I had a heart attack two years ago. I don't smoke, don't drink alcohol, eat sensibly and am not overweight. I was told that stress was almost certainly a factor, so I really do try hard not to worry (and I certainly don't have the energy to be angry with ridiculously ignorant people). What will be will be.

It has made me very sad reading this thread, both about those who are struggling financially, and those who think them the "undeserving poor".
I am not rich, but comfortable, but I agree that life does throw s**t at you, often quite unexpectedly, and anyone's situation can deteriorate in the blink of an eye.
It is sad that in this rich country of ours we cannot make adequate provision for those who are struggling, without making it so difficult to claim help and without stigmatising them in the process.

Basically if I sold up, I would effectively 'make myself homeless' and therefore wouldn't be eligible for social housing - so that would mean private rented which would cost approx 2.5 times my current mortgage! As I would then have all my equity, I would have to pay that in full, plus my care costs, and it wouldn't take long at that rate before my equity had been whittled away and then I would need to renew my claim, which would then be UC - that just seems to be a ridiculous way forward - as it is, at the end of the day they will probably force me to sell anyway if I needed Residential Care, but if at all possible I will sort myself out before things get that bad hopefully!

The only way that I can see would work going forwards was if my Mortgage Lender would let me take some of my mortgage with me and extend the term. Then I could get rid of the bits that I can't cover when it reaches maturity ..... but as I am not 'employed', and never will be, and despite owning probably more than 2/3rds of my property, I doubt they will! Hence the reason why I pay my mortgage but skimp on everything else that might help me keep my health a bit longer .... it is bloody hard!

Trouble seems to be, made in, that you have an asset. Your home.

Depending on its value, and the equity you have in it, could you move somewhere else (ie a cheaper part of the country perhaps), pay off the remainder of your mortgage?

At least you'd be mortgage free then.

Have you discussed extending your term with your lender?

I owned two thirds of the equity in my home, but the mortgage lender (Nationwide) wouldn't extend the mortgage beyond my (then) state pension age. I've had to live partly on the equity for the past six years, after paing off my debts, so I understand your reluctance to sell. On the other hand, I have been entirely debt-free, haven't had to claim any benefits, so haven't been accountable to anybody. Once I'd got over the shock of not being a home-owner and despite the uncertainty about the future, it was a relief not to have to worry about the mortgage and bills and I'm a lot happier. Strangely, I'm more content since I had a heart attack because I know what the alternative is.

The reason I suggested speaking to the housing department is because it seems as though your home isn't fit for purpose. Nobody should have to sleep in the kitchen. My former next door neighbours were allocated a council house, despite having a mortgage. I know that the hubby was ill and disabled and I think the argument was that he couldn't manage the stairs. I know they were having financial difficulties.