Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

Well Grandad despite your patronising dismissal of trans issues as something that could be left until later, it seems to be THE issue. Yesterday, it was the topic of the Moral Maze, today Tony Blair has had his say, - there’s not a media outlet that isn’t discussing it. There’s only one sensible thing to discuss now about the election and that’s how big a margin Keir Starmer will win by. Both LN and RLB have showed themselves totally unsuited to leadership by throwing women’s rights under the bus. Before this fiasco, I would have liked to see them in the Shadow Cabinet but now I think their lack of judgement and contempt for women makes them unfit for that. Their behaviour has diverted attention away from all the serious issues that should be being discussed during this contest and as such they’ve let down all of us ( on all sides of political debate) who want a decent opposition.

Grandad

Do you think there is anything in the rumours, I assume nothing of fact is known, Keir Starmer would choose Ed Miliband as his Chancellor were he to be elected?

Of course nothing of fact is known about who KS will choose for any position in his shadow cabinet. How on earth could there be? There really is nothing sensible left to discuss is there?

POGS, no one can be sure who will win this ballot. I feel that it may be far more open than the media would try to have the public believe.

Lisa Nandy seems to have attempted to attract more publicity to her campaign in the last few days, but in doing that stated everything that labour activist members would certainly not vote for. As opposed to that Rebecca Long-Bailey seems to have revived her campaign by stating everything that the labour activist members wish to hear, especially affiliate activists.

Kier Starmer is just being Kier Starmer hoping that not stating too much will see him to victory. However, all three have undoubtedly moved decisively to the left in the last two weeks perhaps acknowledging that is where the majority who will vote in this election hold their beliefs.

Contrary to what one forum member has stated I believe there will be much to discuss in this thread in the next four weeks of the ballot period.

My Unite branch Secretary has informed us that our ballot forms should arrive by email on Monday, but we all have four weeks to finally make up our minds who to vote for should we wish.

Just to add to my post above POGS, I think that the rumours of Kier Starmer having Edd Miliband in his shadow cabinet should he be elected as leader may have been "put about" by the mischief-making supporters of those opposing him.

I have great respect for Ed Miliband but I feel that Starmer would not last very long as leader should he find a place for Ed Miliband in his shadow cabinet.

Why do you think that Grandad? Ed Miliband proved not to be an effective leader, but my impression is that he's reasonably popular amongst potential Labour voters (not just those voting in the leadership election). As far as I know, he's kept his head down since he resigned as Leader and hasn't caused any trouble.

Growstuff, I feel that that Ed Miliband was a good leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party aligned in policy and structure as it was at the time he was leader. However, the whole Labour movement has moved on since that time and is now a very different body to that of Milibands leadership period.

Should Starmer, if elected, find a senior position for Ed Miliband in his shadow cabinet it would send a strong signal to many that the intention was to move the Parliamentary Party back to the policies and stance of that past era. That action, most definitely, would not be acceptable to almost all that make up the active membership of the broader Labour movement in the country.

Perhaps the problem is that Miliband has kept his head down to effectively in recent years, and in that has not identified with the large scale changes in the structure and stance of todays Labour movement.

He is in line with the rest of the country then.

Yes, Galaxy, Miliband took the Parliamentary Labour Party further to the right than it had ever been previously, and then did not win the General Election, or had you forgotten that fact.

Grandad1943 Did Ed Milliband take the Labour Party further to the Right than Tony Blair? Tony Blair was critical of Ed Milliband in his leadership days for being too far left of centre. A I recall, Blair favoured Ed's brother as leader, a man seen as more in Blair's own image.

Blair praised Ed Milliband for opposing a Referendum on EU before the 2015 General Election but his policy was overturned by Corbyn when he became leader after the Election which added further fuel to the Blair-Corbyn rift.

Grandad I have a name - why don’t you use it? Saying ‘ one forum member’ is just childish. Why not ‘own’ who you are talking about? Pathetic.

The 2015 general election was the only time I have voted Labour. I liked Miliband and I felt his policies were "left" of Blair/Brown. He had a problem with communicating some of his ideas. It's revisionism to claim that he was the same as Blair/Brown.

I know quite a few current LibDem and even Conservative voters, who feel the same as I do. We're never going to be Labour Party members, so won't get a say in who the Labour leader is, but we do have a vote in an election and could very well vote Labour, depending on what happens over the next four years.

If Milliband took the party further right than it had been previously this can only mean further right than Blair who has been called a Tory by the far left .

Corbyn wanted to take the party further left than it had been
in 1983 and the result was the worse loss of an election since
1935.

Anniebach I really do dispute that Miliband took the Labour Party further right than it had been previously. I don't accept that Blair was a Tory either.

I dont particularly think Ed Milliband is a great choice for cabinet for various reasons but he was not further right than Blair, banning zero hours contracts, and capping energy prices are not right wing. I agree with griwstuff that communication was an issue to an extent.

Sorry growstuff, messed up your user name.

I agree Growstuff I repeated what has been said by the far
left about Blair.

Milliband wasn’t a strong leader .

Growstuff, I seem to recall that during the 2014 election campaign large sections of the press and media were complaining that there was little to chose and report on between the policies of all three major parties at that time.

I found it the most boring General Election ever held. ?

Many were still angry Ed had stood for leadership against David and the union vote got Ed in.

Grandad1943 I suspect many here will not regard this as the most impeccable source (I am sure there are others) but I think it is a fair reflection of what Blair thought of Ed Milliband.

www.cityam.com/general-election-2015-what-does-tony-blair-really-think-ed-miliband/

Maybe the 2015 General Election was not seen as exciting at the time but, as it happened, it was one with far-reaching consequences.

Grandad Yes, they were - but most of the press is right wing. That's the line they wanted people to believe. If you looked beyond the headlines, there were some very significant differences.

I agree with you Galaxy, although I would like to see Miliband with some kind of role - perhaps as a chair of a committee. I think Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper are more influential as committee chairs until/unless Labour is in government and I think Miliband could be the same. He could never be anonymous, so if he were on TV etc, people would take notice of him in a way they don't take any notice of random MPs.

The shadow front bench is mostly MP’s of only a few years,
MP’s like Ben, Cooper, Bradford are needed on the front bench .

Galaxy the right of the Parliamentary Labour Party has never been able to communicate their message to the electorate or even members of the Labour movement.

Let's face it between 2010 and 2014 they were very much "given their head" by the broader Labour movement to place into the political domain policies that were not easily swallowed by the trade unions and other affiliated organisations, and stiil.that failed.

Remember the right-wing press labelling Miliband "Red Edd"

The above was how and why Momentum was formed.

Anyway, I am off to the office, see you later.

Cunco Blair was correct. Maybe he should apply for one of Cummings' jobs as a super forecaster.

Blair did a pretty good job of communicating his message in 1997!