Do you beieve Hancock or NHS staff?

Weird logic that people who don't care about the interests of their fellow citizens want to run down their country. If I didn't know better, I'd think this was an attempt at distraction.

Really growstuff ? I beg to differ.

On what grounds GrannyGravy?

GG13 Tin hat and rifle at the ready.

Gaga au contraire, a lot of posters do expect perfection, and are all too ready to shriek when it doesn’t happen.
Too many armchair critics on here.

A dollop of distraction served up with a side of whataboutery grow. You would think it would be be so easy to say ‘yep, Patel and Hancock really messed up there, awful behaviour from them’, wouldn’t you.

The whole premise of the thread is flawed.
Firstly not all NHS frontline staff are saying they have "no PPE". Not by a mile. Do you believe them or do you only listen to NHS staff when they disagree with the government?
Secondly, of the ones reporting a lack of PPE, there is huge variation within that group, they are not all saying the same thing!
- some are workin in regions where stocks are getting right up to the brink
- others are disagreeing with risk analysis
- others are working non frontline and feel "forgotten"
There is HUGE variation within the responses and reports from NHS staff

"NHS staff" as a humogenous mass are not all saying things that are at odds with government reports. Many of them have fed directlg into those reports

Which brings me back to my point that these reports and surveys are useless unless they tangle out the answers by asking more specific questions

Asking it as a blankey statement tangles up the "trust has PPE but I disagree with the risk assessment that resulted in me not getting the highest level of PPE" people with the ones who are actually down to their last roll/viser

Have just deleted a couple of responses as being too ascerbic. I guess that we at least know where the blindfold and earplug stock ended up.

The PPE may be available but it isn't getting to the staff who need it and those in the top posts should do something to rectify the situation. Just saying we have plenty of PPE isn't enough - get it where it is needed pronto.

I take it then notanan2 you are against the government being honest and actually saying there are problems in some areas? Because that is not what they are saying. Perhaps if they were to admitt to failings some might have more confidence in their abilities.

And how do you know all this notanan?

growstuff on what grounds for starters, reading the political threads on GN for the last three years.

And how do you know that Avalon? What's your source that the PPE is available? Do you currently work in NHS procurement?

The government arent the ones doing the risk assessments. Senior clinical staff are.

Disagreements with those assessments may be valid but what is not is using those figures to "prove" that there isnt PPE. When there is.

There may not be for long. Some places may be on the brink. But there is and asking the government to say "theres no PPE" when that is not yet the reality would achieve what exactly?

As usual, many posters can’t have a discussion without proclaiming their absolute knowledge of everything that’s happening all over the country. As well as having absolute foreknowledge of how bad it would get. So all politicians lie every time they speak, all NHS staff are complete saints, every problem in the country can be blamed on politicians, what’s going on in the rest of the world has nothing to do with the U.K. etc etc.
The problem is that everyone would behave differently with hindsight. Not every frontline worker knows exactly what they need. Not every politician is a liar. All information gathered is not always true or useful. The media chooses to present selected info as it suits their agenda for that day. Good news stories sell less papers and attract fewer viewers than drama.
There have been a few balanced and considered responses on here but disappointingly few.

GrannyGravy You'll have to be more specific than that. All GCSE students are trained in something called PEE - point, evidence, evaluation. Some vague throwaway accusation is meaningless.

As posted up thread the questions are being asked in a way that makes them inaccurate.

You cannoy draw any useful conclusions for them

Tangling them out would but then you wouldnt be able to make tribalistic statements like "Gov or NHS staff" if you did that.

Getting a more detailed picture would actually HELP the NHS though. This doesnt.

Where did anybody make any of those claims CleoPanda? Nobody has claimed that all politicians lie every time they speak nor that NHS staff are all angels. It is the government's responsibility to make sure that there is good planning in place for crises. It quite evidently wasn't and it's sickening to see how, even now, it's not being transparent about the situation.

I didn't say it was available Growstuff. I said it may be and if Hancock is saying it is then he needs to make sure it gets to where it is needed. And since you mention it I did used to work for NHS procurement and getting goods to the point of need in the right quantities at the right time was always our priority.

Do you work in / have knowledge of the protective clothing industry Growstuff ? Or are you just so anti towards a Conservative Government who do not have one of the Gransnett Chrystal Balls which so many on here do have?

As for PEE , absolutely pointless on here because if it is not attacking the Conservatives you and many others would not bother to read it.

Sorry but I am now going into the garden to play with my GC, and before you shoot me down in flames for breaking Government Guidelines DD and children are self-isolating with us.

The NHS senior managers are doing risk assessments and should be communicating with staff from the Department of Health about implementation. Part of the problem (and I do know this for a fact) is that organisational fragmentation and outsourcing of parts of the NHS since 2011 have meant that communication and logistics are not as seamless as they should be. However, ultimately Matt Hancock is responsible.

So what's going wrong now Avalon?

@ anti towards a Conservative Government

notanan2 maybe you should offer your services to the Royal College of Surgeons should they wish to do another survey. I would imagine one of the problems is that the questions have to be simple and easy to answer because the people answering are working hard and have little time to respond. However valid questioning the minutae may be it isn't really a reason to believe Hancock is it?

Ok Growstuff maybe there is something wrong with the supply chain is some areas. This is not to say Hancock or NHS staff are lying. They may both be right. If so things need to be tweaked to get them sorted and Hancock is the man in charge who needs to make it happen and if it isn't happening to do something about it.