George Floyd Protests in Hyde Park

WWMK2 History is in books and paintings, artwork etc. , all over the world from many different points of view.

One person's truth is another person's lies, and as none of us has witnessed all of the worlds history since the dawn of time it is blatantly obvious that there is now and will be in the future differing accounts and opinions and difffering truths

I have been discriminated against with regard to both age and accent but I didn't go round smashing up shops, looting, pulling down statues and writing graffiti because of it!

With regard to slavery; it goes far back in history. White people didn't invent slavery; the ancient Egyptians had slaves. Also, white people didn't invent colonialism or empires; conquerors like Genghis Khan came from the Far East.

Most if not all the surface of the globe has been fought over and settled or conquered at some time in history the British are no worse than anyone else. In Africa slavery and conquest was the order of the day long before white settlements, the Zulus in particular conquered and dominated much of Southern Africa, now the tide has turned and they dominate again. From what I have seen traveling it’s only the elite that have seen any improvement in lifestyle, South Africa is probably the best the continent has to offer but it is still dire.

We are all guilty, we all benefit from conquest and exploitation of other countries, everything from cheap clothes from Bangladesh, electronics from China to minerals from Africa. Do those workers have a choice, yes, they can refuse to work and starve, no welfare there, slavery by any other name.

Where were all the Brits protesting about erasing history, and decrying violent protest when the statue of Saddam Hussein was toppled?

It comes to something when the only justification people have for their views is what happened 500 or even 1000 years ago. Of course there were terrible events in the past, but if we cannot do things in a better way now what is the point of civilisation?
The information about the statue was interesting thanks MaizieD. Many of the statues now treated with great reverence were regarded with doubt at the time they were erected. It's another bit of history which is largely forgotten.

Interesting little thread here for the people decrying the vandalism involved in 'removing' the Colston statue

twitter.com/alexrubner/status/1269903557265940480

Seems that locals have been trying for several decades to get it removed...no council, of any political colour, has listened to them...

MaizieD with all due respect that is rubbish. A small minority of people in Bristol wanted the statue removed. Most of the people there yesterday were not Bristolians.
Taking the law in your own hands and permitting mob rule is anarchy.

What happened in the past is just history we can’t change it, maybe we are ashamed of it now but our lifestyle was created by it. Maybe we should repay that debt where we exploited other nations, anyone want to give up half you lifestyle.

* Whitewave* I really don’t think that Grandad1943 has missed the point.He’s right, in that the UK has all the legislation in place regarding race and equality.Changing people’s hearts and minds about race, and regarding black men and women as ‘inferior’ has already been attempted by books, programmes and education generally, which is why things are so much better now, than they were.What exactly can be done to ‘change things’ and what are young black people expecting to happen in the UK?
The laws are there, and granted, if you are
walking down a street and are verbally abused, it’s impossible to do anything about it, but certainly in the school, workplace
Or social setting, then you can do.
With the best will in the world, in this country, I can’t see that anything more can be done.We have a much better record on racism than many other European countries.

I too found it frightening Lilypops,we just shouldn't be having these large gatherings at the moment.And Ellianne,I was thinking about how they all got there,in London and other cities,some would be using public transport.Let's just hope there isn't a large rise in cases because of all this,we're still being told to be careful,why are they exempt from the rules

I was totally against the toppling of Saddam Husseins statue MaizieD

Should the colleseum be destroyed because of its primary use?

If we (The State) allow statues to be destroyed, buildings to be desecrated and vandalised we are walking blindfolded into an Orwellian world.

Destroying things does not eradicate / change history.

Anyway back to the OP, I can see a few of us are concerned that these mass protests are going to aid the spread of Covid-19, and if the "R" rate goes up we shall inevitably be back in lockdown, longer to wait to meet our families and hug them.

Keir Starmer making complete sense as usual.

Talking about the women and children whose chests were branded with Colston’s company name.

Keir Starmer
@Keir_Starmer
Edward Colston was responsible for 100,000 people being moved from Africa to the Caribbean as slaves. 20,000 died en route.

The statue shouldn't have been taken down in the way it was. But it should have been removed from our streets a long time ago.

MaizieD with all due respect that is rubbish.

Are you from Bristol, 25Avalon? Do you have a great love and affection for the Colston statue and are mourning its loss?

I was just passing on the view of a Bristol inhabitant.

Destroying things does not eradicate / change history.

Good god, GG13, you're the one who's claiming that destroying things eradicates history, not me.

I was totally against the toppling of Saddam Husseins statue MaizieD

No, that statement doesn't induce a willing suspension of my disbelief...

Tell me. At what stage does an artefact, say, a building, an old car, a war ship, become a vital part of history and so cannot be destroyed?

Trisher, please don't imply that I am ill informed and then instruct me on my reading matter. Maisie D, please don't assume that you are aware of my view of history. Neither of you know me or my background. You don't even know my name let alone my opinions.

I will use an analogy MaizieD I would not and have not reported any posts on GN however offensive they might be........the reason being is leaving it there for all to see says more about the poster than the poster it is aimed at.

The same goes for statues, mausoleums, buildings etc.

No MaisieD I am not from Bristol but have lived in this area for over 40 years. My husband is a Bristolian born and bred as are many of my friends and acquaintances. I noticed the one person interviewed on Sky just now did not have a Bristolian accent. 7,ooo people signing a petition is a tiny proportion of the people who live here.
Destroying the statue was wanton vandalism whatever your beliefs. My SIL has Colston as a very distant relative. Shall we go round and burn down his house?

Professor Kate Williams provides some interesting information about the statue.

People who say - authorities should take statues down after discussion. Yes. But it isn't happening. Bristol'sbeen debating #EdwardColston for years and wasn't getting anywhere. In 2018, it was agreed that statue would bear a plaque noting his involvement in the slave trade. BUT
Then it proved impossible to find a wording that everyone accepted. The first plaque that it bore, added when it was erected in 1895, said 'Erected by citizens of Bristol as a memorial of one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city'. NO mention of slavery. (2)
Later in 2018, Bristol Council unveiled the wording for the second plaque, “As a high official of the Royal African Company from 1680 to 1692, Edward Colston played an active role in the enslavement of over 84,000 Africans (including 12,000 children) of whom over 19,000 died (3)
en route to the Caribbean and America. Colston also invested in the Spanish slave trade and in slave-produced sugar. As Tory MP for Bristol (1710-1713), he defended the city’s ‘right’ to trade in enslaved Africans. Bristolians who did not subscribe to his religious and (4)
had been discussed by various groups, including children from Colston Primary School (name now changed). But it proved impossible for the Council to get it through. (5)
Some councillors objected. And then the Merchant Venturers got involved and pushed for various changes, including removing the reference to 12,000 children and to focus on his philanthropy (and not to note it was selective) (6)
The new plaque read, Edward Colston, 1636-1721, MP for Bristol 1710-1713, was one of this city’s greatest benefactors. He supported and endowed schools, almshouses, hospitals and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. Many of his charitable foundations continue. This (7)
was erected in 1895 to commemorate his philanthropy.

A significant proportion of Colston’s wealth came from investments in slave trading, sugar and other slave-produced goods.

As an official of the Royal African Company from 1680 to 1692, he was also involved in the (8)
transportation of approximately 84,000 enslaved African men, women and young children, of whom 19,000 died on voyages from West Africa to the Caribbean and the Americas. (9)
As you can see, the language on the two plaques is radically different. The second says his wealth came from sugar etc and he was 'also involved in the transportation' of slaves - rather as if he sort of built boats but didn't know what was going on.Focus was on philanthropy (10)
The Council refused this altered plaque and the Office of the Mayor, Marvin Rees, who has been on TV today, rightly said it was 'unacceptable', particularly the lack of reference to those enslaved. That was in Spring 2019 and the plaque has been under discussions ever since. (11)
Some Bristolians said to me privately that they were pessimistic about the likelihood of an agreed text and thus that the only plaque for ever more on Colston would be the one calling him 'virtuous and wise'. (12)
So everyone saying, why couldn't Bristol just discuss it and bring it down through agreement? It's not that simple. While statues are being discussed and changes blocked, black people have to pass them daily, seeing the congratulation of slave trading, their horror and pain. (13)
For great information on the debates over #Colston in Bristol, the newspaper The Bristol Post (who is covering the events today in detail) on their site Bristol Live is excellent and proof if anyone needed it of how needed are our local newspapers. (14)
debates over the plaque epitomizes to me so many of the big questions we must confront in this country as so much of this country's riches gained in the past stem from the misery of others.

It's very worrying. As you've posted Noreen how many used public transport? How many will have unknowingly contracted the virus and taken it home to those they live with or have taken it to work with them this morning and risk infecting their colleagues?

With regard to the statue, it isn't about whether or not it should have been removed years ago it's about the way it was removed yesterday.; the planned wilful destruction of public property.

Strange, isn't it, then, that Bristol has the UK's first directly elected black Mayor.
Are they unenlightened in Bristol?

There are laws in this country and rightly so, to protect people from prejudice and discrimination in all it's forms. There are also laws to protect property, both private and public. No one has the right to pick and choose the laws they want to abide by and disregard others.

smileless we were excellent at the planned wilful destruction of property When Colston was alive and branding.

smileless2012 that was my reasoning behind my OP, the chances are high that they have contributed to the coming increased spread and infection rates of Covid-19.

I wasn't bothered so much about a statue but at the same time it stood as a stark reminder of how slavery is continuing today otherwise this fact will be buried forever.

The Cecil Rhodes and Oliver Cromwell statues are the next to hit the deck.