George Floyd Protests in Hyde Park

Something I have learned in my sixties is that ideologists do not like facts!

gg13 what facts are those?

David Olusoga, the historian explained racism rather well on Andrew Marr yesterday morning. I suggest anyone that feels unclear as to what it is takes a look and listen.

Think about your life and work out if you have been discriminated against because of your gender, religion or even accent. This could give you some idea of what is meant by racism.

I worked for 7 years in an engineering environment. The women in this place of work were treated as 2nd class with ideas and opinions that were of no account! Discrimination is in built in this society.

Not all white people are good or equal, nor any other race, nor are they all bad.

Try going to India their cast system is appalling.

We have an AC living in Kenya, the black on black racism is everywhere.

Black people sold other black people to the slave traders.

The first registered ^slave owner^in USA was black, Anthony Johnson.

And your point gg13

Education for all on world history, how everyone’s ancestors played a part in shaping today’s world would be a good start WWMK2

There is no such thing as a totally innocent race going back through history, this cannot be air-brushed to suit anyone’s agenda.

So, Galaxy, why aren't they protected ? Even the police know that this goes on. Where are all the child protection officers ??

Nazir Afzal tried his best in the child grooming scandal but got no back-up from our own police force.

Churchill was a correspondent for the Morning Post in the the Boer War and had nothing to do with the concentration camps.
Churchill was never a hero of the working class and didn't purport to be! He was an imperialist and lots of things we all today disapprove of and never pretended to be anything else. He did however get this country through the darkest days of WW2 leading, along with our allies,to defeating one of the vilest dictators the world has ever known. Of course he made mistakes, had plentry of faults, along with with plenty of courage and determination against all the odds which undoubtedly led to the victory over fascism!

Whitewavemark2 it was part of my family history, told by my grandad, that when Churchill visited Hull the dockers booed him.
GrannyGravy13 What's the point of asking that? We are where we are. Our history though is something that constantly needs to be examined. It isn't helpful to set up statues and remember people as heroes when there is evidence to the contrary. Whole areas of history have been glossed over and lost because they didn't fit concepts accepted at the time. Sometimes this is accidental sometimes deliberate, but it is always unacceptable.

gg13 Yes black history is a vital part of education in mitigating against racism, I absolutely agree.

I have a Bantu speaking neighbour whose ancestors were stripped of their land and livelihood after Livingstone and later Rhodes annexed their land.

Fascinating but harrowing stuff.

I am anti slavery trisher, always have been. I wonder how many black music artists and actors have refused to play Colston Hall (I believe it has been renamed) because of who built it?

How many tourists wander round looking at buildings / tombs worldwide not knowing they were built by slaves?

It is an extremely ugly and cruel part of world history it happened it should not be erased.

I am not sure of the exact quote (and I really need to crack on with the ironing) George Orwell 1984, They destroyed the statues and burnt the books

That is not a scenario I wish to see in my lifetime or that of my GC

We can’t rewrite history. Nor should we. Learn from it but you can’t rewrite it or expunge it.
Burn all the books!!

I agree with you GrannyGravy

And wanting to destroy the statue of Churchill is wrong, he is
respected by many in this country .

Not only were all the lands taken by white settlers with the rightful landowners reduced to poverty, but their culture was systematically destroyed. So when they finally gained independence the foundation on which their society had been built was destroyed.

WW2

Education is a cop out everyone knows about slavery or are you meaning educate the ethnic population to fit in more.

Do you have any real solutions to propose

The result of colonialisation is what we have seen since.

Land exploited by the west, all the wealth from oil, diamonds and gold as well as cash crops gone to the west. debt to the west impossible to repay.

Cash cropping has ruined land and striped ownership.

They destroyed the statues and burnt the books is so topical at this given point in time. One of the agitators/ hooligans who desecrated Churchill's statue declared 'Tagged up Churchill as a racist on the statue of Churchill because he is a racist. He didn't fight the nazis for the commonwealth or for wnything else or for any personal freedom. He fought the nazis purely to protect the commonwealth against the invasion by foreign forces. He didn't do it for black people or people of colour. He did it purely for colonialism'. This person needs a history lesson, has he never heard of Adolf Hitler and his Aryan Race?

Typo above, it should say anything else.

So getting back to the OP any posters concerned about these protests spreading Covid-19?

WWMK2 sorry do not get your point Colonialism happened, we know, we are not time travellers cannot go back and change what occurred, we cannot and should not erase / rewrite history
it should remain for all to see and learn from.

Jabberwok From the link I posted
When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced “the minimum of suffering”. The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his “irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men”. Later, he boasted of his experiences there: “That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about.”
Whatever his role he certainly didn't oppose concentration camps.
almostelderly read what he said about people of other races and skin colour and then ask yourself how you would feel about him. He has a history of oppression.
And to those who are telling me it was because of the time he was born in. There were internationalists then who knew it was wrong to oppress people.

ww13 we cannot erase history, but how about starting with the truth?

That would be quite radical wouldn’t it?

No body has threatened to destroy the Churchill statue. Some of you do have vivid imaginations!

It wasn't 'desecrated', it had the truth written on it. Churchill was a racist.

I would even go so far as to say that grafittiing BLM on the Cenotaph wasn't a desecration, either. People of all nations and colours have given their lives for 'us' in wars. Yet black people get very little thanks or recognition for it and encounter racism in the country their forbears fought for. BLM is a little reminder...

It seems to me that what some of you are objecting to is having your view of history challenged. Removing a statue doesn't 'erase history'; history is there in books, letters, memoirs etc. in artefacts directly connected with the period or event and in narratives handed down by people like trisher's grandad. History is 'erased' when the inconvenient bits are written out of it.

Interesting account here of the background to the Colston statue. It seems that Bristolians weren't over keen on having it at the time...

www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/myths-within-myths/?fbclid=IwAR0Ydo1DhsvMJiK72KLFBBo-ej0kAwwcedKzuDvSDkWvU_Lukt_8LUQmXzA#:~:text=The%20statue%20actually%20marks%20the,philanthropic%20donations%20to%20the%20city

Jabberwok “ I thought that you regarded the Queen as the vilest human being that had ever lived?!!!”
when did paddyanne say that? As I understand it she is probably anti monarchy, which is fine but I definitely don’t recall her saying anything remotely like what you are claiming! .