Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter

And that starts in the nursery to teach children to accept everyone.
There are too many adults with ingrained ideas about race that have been taught to them by other bigoted people. It would be very hard to change them now so the only way is to look to our young people to make a better world.

Exactly as it translates Madgran.
If you keep picking at a sore it'll never heal. The same goes for this subject.

What's so " dangerous " about saying that Summerlove ??

Do we have to wait for another death before anything is done to improve the situation ? What are YOU going to do to help ? Actions speak louder than words !

*Exactly as it translates Madgran.
If you keep picking at a sore it'll never heal. The same goes for this subject.*

But the circumstances have to be right for a sore to heal!!! Otherwise it just festers...and THAT is where we have been for a long time with it festering!!!

Exactly EllanVannin. Talking about it is not actually doing anything.
What we can do is teach our children/grandchildren to never accept racism.
That is something we can all do

I’ve never understood why so many white women who claim not to be racist have such an issue with black lives matter.

No one is saying your lives don’t matter, and the fact that you think that’s what is being said shows shocking naïveté to the world around you.

Keeping black lives a seat at the table takes nothing away from white women. There’s absolutely no reason to not support it. However, so many people prefer to dismiss the movement and complain about other things. We can be angry about many things at once, or at least some of us apparently can.

Honest question to everybody who thinks supporting this is wrong or that racism doesn’t exist or that the UK is not racist. What do you lose by admitting you’re wrong? What do you lose by trying to be an ally and help lift other people up?

Really, what do you lose?

What’s so dangerous?

It continues the hatred and the inequity. It shows the black community that they are indeed worthless. That you feel their experiences are wrong, lies, made up. You are dismissing them and their experiences out of hand, because it’s not your experience. Many women on this thread are dismissing the experience as not one they have had.

So many people having that attitude is what has left us where we are today.

That’s why it’s dangerous.

AGAA4

Exactly EllanVannin. Talking about it is not actually doing anything.
What we can do is teach our children/grandchildren to never accept racism.
That is something we can all do

....How do you do this without talking about it?

Of course there will be areas in life such as you describe where everyone gets along well but Your experience is exactly that - your experience.

Everyone getting on together isnt really the issue here though is it. The fact is that if me and my equally qualified and experienced friend/colleague both applied for the same job, I would statistically have a significanty greater chance of being shortlisted for interview and getting the job than her ...because I have a "white" sounding name whereas she has an "ethnic" sounding name! So she immediately, through no fault of her own and with nothing to do with her ability to do that job has an extra huge hurdle to jump over that I have never and will never have as shown by clear and well analysed statistics over many years!! That is systemic and probably largely unconscious racism and little to do with "getting on together".

Alongside the massive numbers of black men who are stopped and searched ...in comparison to other groups ...when they are just going about their business and doing NOTHING that suggests they are doing anything suspicious...but they are black!! Saw an example the other day of a bloke wandering out if a local Sainsburys buying spinach for his Grandma being stopped and searched! Dressed in jeans and a jumper!! Hmmm!

Now ofcourse there will always be examples of the opposite but statistics show those examples are significantly less available than the versions I have described. This is systemic because it is about assumptions, ingrained perceptions, often but not always unconscious.

So if we just dont talk about it, dont recognise it, dont look at our advantages, our disadvantages, our assumptions and societal systems that allow this, nothing will ever change and our next generations will absorb the same "norms"

Summerlove. We talk at length on here when the people we should be talking to are our children/grandchildren.

We are, most of us of a certain age, and we have our differing ideas that we have probably held for some time. It is difficult to change the minds of people with set ideas. That is why young minds matter.

We have a responsibility to them to teach them to accept others no matter the colour of their skin.

We are all born in the same way. We all have hearts, lungs etc. The colour of our skin shouldn't be an issue but it seems it has been for hundreds of years.

It is time to change that and we can do that through education and acceptance.

I agree, education is the first step.

But when those doing the educating or educating their older long held beliefs, it’s certainly not going to do much good. So educating the older minds who are educating the younger minds is every bit as important in my opinion.

Who are the forces stoking up racial disharmony? Interesting video explaining the factual evidence of 'Police racism' in the U.S
.https://www.facebook.com/DavidJHarrisJr/videos/601088813846177

Racism goes both ways,it`s about time that was acknowledged.
I treat everyone equally and thats how we should behave but it won`t happen,this will get out of hand for sure.
I am more worried about this than covid 19.

I agree with timetogo - racism can go both ways, and there is much to do. Hatred is directed at black people by the ignorant and also directed at the Police for no reason. There have been and no doubt are racists in the force but that doesn't mean all are - and I find it so worrying when support for a most worthy cause is hijacked by the 'let's smash everything up and loot from local shops because we can' faction of society. Peaceful protest can say it all; violence simply takes over the message of the cause.

It's hard to say racism wouldn't exist if people didn't talk about it when the man who leads our country makes chimp noises at black people on social occasions.
twitter.com/realnatalierowe/status/1117453001638207489?lang=en

Where our PM refers to 'Watermelon smiles' and 'pickaninnies'.
www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-defends-his-offensive-articles-about-black-and-gay-people-2019-6?r=US&IR=T

...and refers to women wearing burkas as 'letter boxes'
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45083275

If the man holding the top job in the country talks this way, NOT talking about racism is hardly likely to make it go away!

There was a comment to the effect that this murder occurred in the US so it's nothing to do with us and people in this country shouldn't get involved in protests.

I don't agree with that. People often comment and protest about regimes that they believe mistreat their citizens. Many people, for instance (including me) criticise Saudi Arabia's treatment of women, immigrant workers and dissidents. It is only because these issues were highlighted in other countries that certain measures were moderated, eg women being allowed to drive (although the women who were brave enough to campaign for this have been imprisoned and ill treated - and so this can by no means be described as a great triumph) and have access to education and healthcare without the consent of a male guardian.

I think it is particularly incumbent on us to protest about these issues when our government is trading with
such countries, often selling them crowd control equipment which are used to repress dissent.

Rosalyn what evidence do you have to support your guess that "a lot wanted an outing and a chance to make a ruckus." I would imagine there are much more pleasant "outings" to be had. To suggest that many of the people present did not sincerely feel moved by the horror and sadness of this unlawful and inhumane act is, I think, based on your own prejudices rather than on fact.

The murder of Stephen Lawrence was an act committed by thugs and criminals but what followed was a proven dereliction of duty - and obvious examples of racism - by the police team that investigated the murder - so in that sense "institutionalised racism" was responsible for the killers not being speedily brought to justice.

timetogo2016

Racism goes both ways,it`s about time that was acknowledged.
I treat everyone equally and thats how we should behave but it won`t happen,this will get out of hand for sure.
I am more worried about this than covid 19.

Racism does not go both ways

Prejudice does

There is a massive difference.

Yes, what Summerlove said

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Interesting

Summerlove Spot on!

Great, easy to understand article Madgran!

Changing your mind on things like this after taking time to understand it, makes noone wrong or a hypocrite, it just means you grew as a person. Which is wonderful.

BLM

Thanks for saying that about the institutional racism in the police force investigating the Stephen Lawrence case, Eloethan. I’ve been out much of the day until now (I know - exciting!) so couldn’t get back to comment.

Talking has to be a prelude to action, because how can anything happen if we don’t speak of things? Talk can’t be the only thing that happens, though. I was astounded to learn today that Colston has been a controversial figure since the 1920’s. One hundred years ago. Yet his stature remained on its plinth in Bristol until yesterday despite so many people’s discomfiture.

Whilst I don't condone violence and destruction, it’s hard to feel that Colston’s statue has been treated any differently from the many slaves who were thrown overboard whilst alive from the slaving ships. .

I'd remove the police from the state of Minneapolis, they're dangerous psychopaths.

My friend sent me this, I don't know the source:

"Here is an example of how white privilege sounds:

"You keep saying 'It's horrible that an innocent black man was killed, but destroying property has to stop'

"Try saying, 'It's horrible that property is being destroyed, but killing innocent black men has to stop.' "

"You are prioritising the wrong part."

All lives matter... Hmm. Would you have refused to clap for the NHS because "All jobs matter"?

What consistently astounds me, when browsing the dear old Internet, is the confidence of a huge number of white people who feel entitled to say what is and isn't racism. They even have the arrogance to tell BAME people that something isn't racist. It is like the many men who feel qualified to tell women what is or isn't sexism. The privileged don't get to define oppression.

Boris Johnson is doing it now. Who is he to say whether this is a racist country? No, it isn't racist - for him. He is a privately educated white man from a wealthy family. Tell us about your struggle, Boris

In the USA, a country built directly on slavery, racism is more overt. Imagine, for a moment, that you are a black woman living in the States. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be scared every time your husband, brother, son or grandson went out? That it might be the last time you saw him alive?

My personal feeling is that now is the time for the Deity to appear in the sky and address all the people who think that racism is exaggerated, that white people don't have advantages, that people of colour are just making trouble, that "all lives matter"... The Deity should tell them that, in their next lives, they will all be born black. Oh, and poor.

Then the Deity should quietly close the clouds and leave them to think about it.