Why aren't we proud anymore?

I'll tell them that instead of saying thankyou, should go down well!!!. Lots of people who have provided vital services are not volunteers, it doesn't mean that they are any less valued. But of course that is a positive story, and we don't want any of those!

I used the Proud to be British term, it would be better if I had sad “Happy to be British” we aren’t perfect but there is nowhere else better overall in my opinion. All countries have had some kind of period that they would rather forget.

Nationalism taken to extremes has caused many wars, lesser disputes and is often used to win elections. There is nothing more sure than blaming another nation for your countries problems.

Jabberwok...the binmen are not volunteers. They are doing the job they are paid to do and are probably relieved they still have a job to do!

Well, I'd like to give a great big thank you to the people who have emptied our dustbins every week since lockdown began. They have never failed to come and I think they've generally been grossly undervalued . They've been brilliant and deserve some recognition!

I am proud to be British but I am bitterly disappointed in our present government. The Mother of Parliaments is failing to hold the executive to account. Our country has been taken over by the type of Populist Government that we thought could never happen in a democracy.

There are events and attitudes in the country's past which some are struggling to put behind us. Our ancesters treated the natives of India, Africa and Australia badly. We cannot undo the past but we can learn from the past to make a better future.

The United Kingdom has a lot to be proud of. Britain has probably done more to advance mankind than any other country and given a civilised government can regain its rightful place in the world. When we have moved on from the Johnson/Cummings traincrash of a government, real pride can come back.

How often is "national pride" just shorthand for "our country is better than everyone else's"? That way lies racism, nationalism and, all too often, fascism. It has happened before, it has happened elsewhere, and there are people who would like to see it happen here.

You can't have, rationally, a blanket pride in your country. You can be proud of its beauty and proud of people's achievements, individually and collectively. You can be proud of the things you believe your country represents. But how can you be proud of everything relating to your country?

That leads to people insisting that everything belonging to their country is the best, and that neither they nor their ancestors ever did anything wrong. That's blatantly untrue, for all nations, yet you have plenty of people determined to justify heinous events in their country's history.

Do we want to be people who never question things about Britain that we know are wrong? Who never examine our own history? Who never challenge our government when they are mistaken, incompetent or downright callous? If we love our country, we should want to make it better, not go around breast-beating about how fabulous we are.

My objection to the word "fashionable" is because I honestly don't think it is "fashionable" to talk about pulling all statues down, despite what some tabloids would have you believe.

I think most people couldn't care less about statues of most long-dead so-called worthies. I have read very, very few comments seriously suggesting removing the Churchill stature permanently. However, I do think that there are some people who have a more balanced view of him now. If there were really hordes of people who hate Churchill so much, I'm absolutely amazed that his statue isn't vandalised more often.

There are some people who claim that the government is trying to wage a culture war and, while my opinion is that there's some truth in it, I think we've always had culture wars. The tabloids love nothing more than ridiculing people as lefties or the PC brigade or some such derogatory term. They pander to their readers, just as all newspapers do.

Unfortunately, I come across quite a few people with a "golf club" mentality and usually humour them. They really hate it when their entrenched attitudes and stereotypes are challenged. Funnily enough, they immediately lose their sense of humour. I feel the same with myopic left-wing people too, but I just don't know many of them.

dragonfly I absolutely and totally agree. And Molly you put it perfectly. Personally I blame the mass media, with BBC the worst offenders. Their behaviour and reporting during this worldwide crisis has been utterly shameful and disgraceful. Take Marcus Rashford. When Boris decided to continue with the free school lunch scheme after what was said the BBC could have praised him for listening, considering and changing his opinion. Instead it was "isn't it a humiliating u turn by the government ". Thousands of people have been tested for corona. The vast majority will have got the results in the expected time. Do we hear about those? Of course not. The media search the length of the country to find a person who had to wait longer. No one apart from NHS (and the entire organisation has been beatified, waycot of proportion to what most of them have done) has been given any praise for the incredible hard work they are doing. It is said that the Government has been put to the test and found wanting. But I say it is the media that has been found wanting! Thank goodness the BBC was different during the war!

We could have a "bread and circuses" TV channel.

We could ask North Korea for advice.

Cross post with growstuff!

Callistemon

You beat me to it, I was going to own up to the ‘fashionable’ remark.

Just a query. I didn’t realise there was a new Quote facility. I wondered what it was.How do you get it to appear?
Apologies if I sound a bit dense!

The British aren't a race. They're part of the human race.

Thanks for the explanation Callistemon.

I didn't realise there's a new quote facility either.

Does it do quotes of quotes?

dragonfly46, Well said on both posts and I agree with Jabberwok on your 2 posts. I think you are exactly right.
I think it does not do any of us any good mentally, to be looking for the most awful scenarios.

growstuff

Callistemon I don't think it's "fashionable" at all. I have met too many people who mock others for having strong beliefs they disagree with and attempt to ridicule them. Strangely enough, they really don't like it when they become objects of derision themselves.

I was quoting Calendargirl and was merely explaining to her the term used for it .

Perhaps some posters are not understanding the new Quote facility.

I woul not want to live anywhere else on this earth. I love this country, its decency, tolerance, fairness and sense of humour, and although I acknowledge that it is not perfect - where is? - it is where I was born, have lived and been happy, and hope to die. (But not just yet)
We are a race of inventors, explorers, scientists, the cradle of the industrial revolution, and for those who criticise everything, why do half the world seem to want to make their home here?

Mollygo

Im proud of my country, but I’m ashamed of how we emphasise the bad things that happen here. It’s harder to be proud when you’re depressed.
If you listen to the media or read the newspapers it’s almost always negative-any positives, like Captain Tom are immediately shouted down by folk who have usually achieved less themselves.
Sometimes it’s misleading. According to one report, children not being at school is damaging their mental health. So children being at home with their parent(s) is damaging their mental health? How many parents will admit that?
Stop publicising the vandalism. It just encourages others to do the same.
Celebrate the successes of the COVID crisis as well as mourning the deaths. It’s hard to be a nurse or a doctor or a care home owner dealing with deaths without seeing any praise for their successes.
Celebrate that at least we have the freedom to agree/disagree about sending children back to school-having looked at lists, there are as many who could send their children back but won’t, and many who would send their children back but can’t.
Does anyone know exactly how to do it right?
Be proud of your country -stand up and say it, lobby the media to stop publishing negativity and have at least a day of broadcasting only positive things to be proud of.
You’ll face a hard battle.

Wonderful! Well said Molly ???

While we're thinking about national pride, today is Waterloo Day. I'm quite proud of the British commander of the army of continental allies who inspired them to hold on like grim death and gave their other ally, the Prussian army, time to join them to defeat Napoleon.

(And I am well aware of his shortcomings in some instances)

The parties don't seem to remember that they are all part of the government and when there is criticism there should also be a suggestion of a possible better way.

I don't think that you have noticed, BBJS that this government's method of operating is to ignore offers of help.

Starmer wrote to Johnson offering to help with getting schools re-opened. Ignored. In fact. Johnson even lied about ignoring his letter in PMQs.

When the PPE shortage crisis was at its height many firms emailed offering to help out. Ignored.

Many labs offered to help with testing. Ignored.

This government seems to regard government as a battle against a hostile nation (they're rapidly making that a self fulfilling prophecy). All the opposition have managed to do so far is shame them into a few u-turns. You can't co-operate with a government that isn't willing to co-operate.

Strangely enough, they really don't like it when they become objects of derision themselves.

That's a little dramatic, growstuff

Callistemon I don't think it's "fashionable" at all. I have met too many people who mock others for having strong beliefs they disagree with and attempt to ridicule them. Strangely enough, they really don't like it when they become objects of derision themselves.

@timetogo16 Really? With the highest death rate per million of population in the world?

I agree with Geekesse ; If we were attacked by"invaders from Space" the whole world would band together to protect ourselves. We are all citizens of the world and should be cooperating as well as possible with each other. I truly believe National flags should be banned as they encourage division. I'm not saying that they can't be useful in sporting terms but those are between friends .
The British have many things to be proud of but they must not push it into other countries' faces.
Re: Goverment; The parties don't seem to remember that they are all part of the government and when there is criticism there should also be a suggestion of a possible better way. They all are supposed to be working for the good of the country; not just squabbling for personal influence.

Well said Cherry Tree!

Calendargirl

I think Merlotgran’s DH made that remark, although jokingly, because at the moment it seems very fashionable to jump on anyone who has been held in high esteem, and bring them down growstuff.

It's known as Tall Poppy Syndrome Calendargirl