Why aren't we proud anymore?

Cherrytree when we lived in Scotland the biggest compliment we were paid was that our friends did not think of us as being English!

Okay maybe proud is the wrong word but what would be good is if we can for once concentrate on the good things and not keep running the country down. I don't mean just government.

We have some wonderfully talented people here. It was here that they discovered a drug which could save lives. We are the most advanced in finding a vaccine against Corona.

Okay our NHS is struggling but there are many countries in the world envious of it.

Let's give ourselves a boost every now and then instead of knocking ourselves down. I am sure it would be better for our mental health in the present situation.

Whoa Paddyanne I am a Celt I am Scottish through and through!
I know about Scotlands rich history, Scottish inventions, Scottish remarkable scientists etc and Scotland wonderful countryside and music.

I was brought up not on Shakespeare but RobertBurns
I also know something about Scottish politics.

Sadily I also know from personal experience the religious bigotry that unfortunately is still prevalent in some parts of Scotland.

I have a boot in both camps as it were, as in now live in England and have a English family.
My son in law is of Welsh descent.

My great grandparents on my maternal side were from Kilkenny in Ireland.

I am Proud Scot
I am proud to be British
I am proud to a member of the UK .

I feel very uncomfortable when people from my home country (Scotland) feel the need to
continuously point out how bad they perceive England and English people to be.
However in the next breath saying that they are not xenophobic as they have a friend or inlaw etc living south of the border.

I have the St Andrew's flag (Saltire)
We have a Welsh flag.
We have the England flag as well as the Union Jack.

The different 4 Nations flag are well used at sporting events especially rugby.

I could bring politics into it but what's the point?
My close family in Scotland are obviously proud of their country, but are happy being part of the UK.


The Nightingale hospitals were/are our insurance policy.

Jabberwock we have much to be proud of (all 4 Nations)
Pride is not a sin, I am proud of my children and grandchildren and I tell them so.

So what you're saying is that unlike other countries we have nothing to be proud of? Sorry I can't agree with that!

“Malawi is marginally poorer than when we left! How can this be? I'm sure someone will tell me that it's our fault!!”

No not our fault, although they are peaceful and more or less democratic, they have no natural resources at all, so they can’t sell anything. 60% of their GDP is foreign aid and almost all their electricity is hydro from one river and very unreliable.
They simply have no money, probably 80% of the population is Rural, which is good because if you don’t grow your own food you don’t eat!.

Visit if you can a real eye opener.

Geekesse I couldn't agree more.
I've never understood pride in one's country of origin, pride in being working class (do people ever say they're proud of being middle class?), proud of being gay, trans, etc. I'm not proud of being heterosexual, or English, or a woman. Why should I be, since these things are accidental in my life.

When did pride stop being a sin?
National pride particularly can lead to much darker things.

Lots of other countries have stuff to be proud of so what is the point of expressing pride in our country? The wrong sort of people have hijacked the Saint George's cross flag and the Union flag seems to be going the same way as a symbol for rowdies and ignoramuses.

You can, if allowed,be proud of your country's achievements! Our Police Force, our armed forces, (didn't those Welsh Guards look absolutely splendid, putting on such a fantastic show) our Queen, our medical achievements, our scientific breakthroughs, shipbuilding and many other things down the ages. All European countries had colonies, the French still do! Somehow they don't seem to count,but we have to constantly apologise! How many of us expect modern Germans to constantly apologise, or blame them for Hitler? I know I don't and never have! We've poured more money into our former colonies than any other European country but still it's not enough even though a good proportion of that money has been siphoned off to fill Despots pockets! Malawi is marginally poorer than when we left! How can this be? I'm sure someone will tell me that it's our fault!!

Sadly, so many people don’t even seem to take a pride in themselves!

Most other European countries have functioning democracies. They use PR systems for elections, which mean that your vote is more likely to count. Elections often result in coalition governments which actually represent the majority of the electorate . More voters feel have a stake in national decision making.

The UK by contrast has a scandalously undemocratic FPTP voting system which means most people feel that their vote does not count. A party supported only by a minority of voters can gain a huge majority in the HoC and in effect run as a dictatorship for five years.

Most voters feel alienated from the way that the country is run and will criticise the government, which is not neccesarily the same as criticising the country, especially when we have such an incompetent government, but many British people find difficult to feel pride in the UK, in spite of admiring the work of many good British people, such as the experts, previously mocked and derided by Johnson and his Vote Leave friends.

I don’t think ‘pride’ is ever appropriate when it comes to one’s country. It’s not unreasonable to feel pride in something one has achieved personally, or had a large personal part in, but taking pride in one’s nation is meaningless. For most people, their national identity is merely the result of an accident of birth and/or upbringing. One could hardly claim to be ‘proud’ to have been born in xyz hospital, or by Caesarian section, or weighing seven pounds, or of living in Canterbury, or growing up in the sixties, or some such.

What i meant paddyanne was how we as individuals have coped with being locked in our home.
And i agree with your comment on BJ.

You are right dragonfly. Unfortunately, those who do express a bit of national patriotism are immediately labelled 'far-right'. Lack of pride shows itself in so many ways..dropping litter, allowing dogs to foul pavements..it's all part of the same thing.

What is occurring at present is partly intended to demoralise us even further..prompting shame and regret. Yes, we did colonise other countries, but so did other Europeans. Let's not pretend that those countries didn't benefit from Western influence.

Cherrytree59 It's true that the Nightingale Hospitals were "built in double quick time" but they were hardly used. Apparently the Excel Centre which opened on 3 April, with a bed capacity of 4000, is reported to have had 51 patients during it's first 3 weeks.

The NHS managed to cope with the existing hospitals and the staff shortages and we should (and are) be proud of them. But I really don't think that the commisioning of those temporary hospitals is anything to be proud of.

I tried to find out what more up to date information but the most recent I found was from the beginning of May when various newspapers were predicting their imminent closure.
It seems to me that it was a PR stunt by an incompetent government.

timetogo I dont think theres anything to be proud of in the covid mess,Bojo's 60,000 deaths are shocking and were avoidable...he had the information and the time to to deal with this in a way that didn't leave 60,000 families in mourning

Cherrytree there IS no British ,there is English ,Irish Welsh and Scots and I think you;ll find that the three celtic nations are very proud of their countries,their culture ,their people.
I dont know why the St Georges Cross was picked up by britnats but it was and it does bring shame on it .

However you have always been allowed to FLY your flag until very recent times we had to have permission from the Home Office (in London) to fly a Saltire on a flagpole for Scottish events,indeed Historic Scotland say they have to follow the rule and only fly the SCOTTISH flag on Scottish holidays at all other times they are obliged to fly the union flag ...thats over places like Edinburgh and Stirling Castle

.Maybe you should start a campaign to take back the flag ..I know tens of thousands of us have and we fly it proudly in gardens the length and breadth of the country ,if enough good people do the skinheads might leave it alone ,as it is if you see someone with a St Georges cross flag you cross the road to avoid trouble

I am veryproud of our/my country especially the way we have coped with Covid 19.
As for putting up flags, we were told by the local council to take down the union flag as it can offend minority groups and we only put the Engish flag up during football tournaments.
I find that offencive to me.

Galaxy being critical of government is our democratic right. What I referring to is the way we run our own country down to other nations.
There is criticism of government and government policies in all countries but they tend to contain it and maintain their pride in their country.

I do not advocate swearing allegiance to the flag as they do in the US but every child in the Netherlands knew all the words to the National Anthem and hung the Dutch flag out of the window when they passed their final exams.

You are absolutely right dragonfly46.
I couldn’t agree more.

I have always been proud to be British and often feel grateful to have been born in what I consider to be the best country in the world.

The seemingly constant put downs is a mystery. We are world leaders in so many spheres of which the latest news of the virus treatment is a classic example.
This drug could save millions of lives worldwide. Brilliant.

Yet still as we see on GN some would prefer to rage on and on about how terrible everything is here with boringly predictable rants.

This thread is long overdue!

It is true that the far right here have taken the French flag as theirs. However on Bank Holidays you will see is flying from all local council buildings and from local buses, there are fixtures on each side at the front bus for them.

When I go to Holland, the Dutch old and young are 'deeply grateful' for Bomber Command, and all our efforts to liberate them. In England, I virtually have to apologise for both! Everything this country does or has done, is awful, shameful, dreadful in every respect. No other European nation has such an appalling history as Britain, England in particular is diabolical! Nothing positive, always negative! You're right dragonfly, it's deeply depressing and actually not true!

That's interesting Nandalot.
The far-right is rearing its ugly head all over the place. Maybe they are taking "possession" of country flags elsewhere?

It's the very evident division that has been forced upon us. We're now the United States of Britain !

I find this not to be universally true.
I think it's more nuanced and complex than the OP states.

I've also lived abroad in the 80s and also spent long periods abroad (not as resident) and find attitudes elsewhere also nuanced. It depends who you are talking to as well.

In Italy, for example, they may be proud of their heritage and their style but they are not (generalisations here) their corruption and paperwork/legal systems.

In Germany they are proud of their engineering but not the rise of Hitler (which still colours their thinking).

It's not a one-size fits all.

Oldwoman70, I had an interesting chat with my half Spanish granddaughter the other day. She says the Spanish National flag has become a symbol of the far right there.