Institutional racism in the police?

My understanding is that the apology is the classic one of ‘for any distress caused’. It will be interesting to hear the findings of the referral. IMO none of us has the facts on which to judge what happened at the moment. There are lots of unanswered questions however.

X posts

It’s not stopping the police from doing their job by having standards they should adhere to and investigating when they may have fallen short. Rather it’s the sign of a decent society.

No, we don't have the full facts, neither have we seen what the recordings were made by the police, both on bodycam or on any patrol car. I suspect that these have been viewed by those who have dealt with the complaint, which is why the apology is for distress caused only, i.e . not for actually stopping the car.

It matters not what colour you are when entering airports. In 1982 I was pulled to one side at Sydney airport when I'd collected my suitcase off the carousel.

Knowing I had nothing to hide I complied with the police/security and entered a room where my suitcase was searched and a wire prod was guided around the metal frame.

I was quite amused but annoyed to see my suitcase reduced to a heap of rubbish and its frame broken but I went along with it. Finally after gathering up my belongings etc and trying to re-fasten the suitcase I was released.

Next day I read about a big drug haul at the airport and it was those who'd travelled from Liverpool. I'd flown from there to Heathrow for my connecting flight. The fact that I'd flown from Liverpool had blotted my copy-book so far as the police and security in Oz were concerned and I'd been discriminated against because of it.

Not only does colour come into it but where you come from too. The shame !

No, behaving to a standard is what should be happening, but I am fearful that now police officers may not want to step in . They may feel that even if the right action is taken this will cause more problems. I know a police officer who stepped in when a woman was being assaulted, she then turned on the police officer as it was her boyfriend carrying out the assault on her. Her objection was to the police trying to help her . She didn't want him arrested. Mad but true!

I was concerned the apology was for stopping the car

But beside the apology there is also an investigation into the use of handcuffs. It is difficult to see how the mother of a small baby was deemed such a risk- from the police instructions
Any intentional application of force to the person of another is an assault. The use of handcuffs amounts to such an assault and is unlawful unless it can be justified. Justification is achieved through establishing not only a legal right to use handcuffs, but also good objective grounds for doing so in order to show that what the officer or member of police staff did was a reasonable, necessary and proportionate use of force

trisher , you clearly haven't met some of the women I've met. I've met some who could be called evil. Some would give a heavy weight boxer a good run for their money. Being a mother is no indication of good character , or kindness or a lack of violent intent. I am of course talking generally.

Sorry that should finish ' not specifically'.

Lois you are making assumptions that the internal judgement of the police is beyond reproach. There’s a reason why we have referral to an independent body,
annie there was plenty of coverage in the media this morning as to the form and content of the apology. It’s generally better Imo to check the position before wading in with a supposition.

LoisLovesstewie I have met lots of them and very few of them would, when a police officer grabbed their arm, respond with "No-no no." or "What are you doing?" The air would have been blue with their language and the woman police officer would have been on the receiving end of a couple of good punches and a Glasgow kiss. Someone being in distress is a great deal different to someone being aggressive and the police should know the difference, even if you don't.

I am not making assumptions , I understand that people make mistakes . I understand that not all police officers are wonderful and that there are racists everywhere. I understand that it is quite possible to just misjudge a situation, I understand that it is possible ( as I said up-thread) for a situation to get out of control .
What I don't want though is trial by media, I don't want the police to feel that they are unable to get on with their ,often very difficult, job, and I don't want to be in a situation where people are getting away with crimes because the police are afraid .How many of you have complained about the sex crimes carried out by mainly Asian gangs ? What do you think caused that ? Incompetence ? Not wishing to offend ? Not understanding that young females can't consent ? I've read numerous debates on that subject here. I would suggest it was a bit of all of those things.

And hands up who would want to be a police officer? Not me . Running the risk of getting my head kicked in, or shot or knifed by a a suspect . They couldn't pay me enough.
I know this has become a bit of a ramble , but I think all of those things need to be thought out . At the minute we are in a bit of a ' all police are pigs' thought process due to recent events with BLM . What we need are cool heads and the ability to think before we all of us act.

Nice to know that you can believe that I don't know the difference between distress and aggression. Don't know where you get that from. They aren't mutually exclusive emotions you know.

suzie your opinion is just that ‘ your opinion’ , nothing of
importance

Loislovesstewie

I am not making assumptions , I understand that people make mistakes . I understand that not all police officers are wonderful and that there are racists everywhere. I understand that it is quite possible to just misjudge a situation, I understand that it is possible ( as I said up-thread) for a situation to get out of control .
What I don't want though is trial by media, I don't want the police to feel that they are unable to get on with their ,often very difficult, job, and I don't want to be in a situation where people are getting away with crimes because the police are afraid .How many of you have complained about the sex crimes carried out by mainly Asian gangs ? What do you think caused that ? Incompetence ? Not wishing to offend ? Not understanding that young females can't consent ? I've read numerous debates on that subject here. I would suggest it was a bit of all of those things.

And hands up who would want to be a police officer? Not me . Running the risk of getting my head kicked in, or shot or knifed by a a suspect . They couldn't pay me enough.
I know this has become a bit of a ramble , but I think all of those things need to be thought out . At the minute we are in a bit of a ' all police are pigs' thought process due to recent events with BLM . What we need are cool heads and the ability to think before we all of us act.

what a wonderful, sensible post

The law is clear though. There has to be evidence that the use of force was reasonable. As there is no evidence of aggression (watch the video) using handcuffs isn't necessary, or are you saying it is OK to handcuff people in distress?

But scarecly an answer to institutional racism or even to a belief that police are racist. Policing in this country is by consent and if the community don't have confidence in or support the police they simply are more at risk.

So as long as someone is “in distress” as opposed to resisting, what are the police to do?

Handcuffs are used to protect officers from violence. I saw bodycam footage of a female police sergeant arresting a man at an address. He was handcuffed and in the back of the police car quite calm. She bent down to speak to him and from nowhere he attacked her with such ferocity. It was hard to watch. He broke her nose and was kicking her on the ground. She did manage to press the panic/help button on her radio but she was badly injured. Isn’t it better to be cautious?

In most countries handcuffs are used routinely, I know they aren't here, and the police may face all sorts of attacks as a result.
it's a balancing act.

No it isn't. The instructions are clear. It's ideas like that that lead to police officers thinking it is OK to kneel on someone's neck just in case he does something.

I’m sorry Trisher but it is. There’s no harm is handcuffing someone and explaining they will be removed once enquires have been made or a search conducted. A police officer was stabbed to death when conducting a search or arrest of a terrorist suspect in Manchester several years ago. Other officers there and quite calm then suddenly goes berserk and picks up a knife. If he’d have been handcuffed that officer would still be alive. There’s no comparison to kneeling on someone’s neck. No decent person believes that’s acceptable.

Big difference to putting handcuffs on a persons wrist and pressing a knee into a persons neck, to think one will lead to the other is so dramatic. If only handcuffs had been put on those who hacked P.C. Blacklock to death.

A young black man was interviewed during the first demo for
Black Lives Matter, he complained that police can stop cars to
search for drugs because it’s their laws. I thought the laws in this country applied to black and white, he thinks not.

There’s been a trial by social media on this case - on both sides It’s simply not true that there’s a general feeing that all police are pigs - that’s nonsense. Some people believe that and of those a very few may have very good reason so for doing. As for the implied argument that because we wouldn’t want to be a police officer, we somehow shouldn’t criticise them, that’s equally a nonsense argument. There’s lots of jobs I’ve never wanted to do for all sorts of reasons but that has nothing to do with holding individuals who do do those jobs to account and who have been criticised.

Ok, to ask a question. Should the police not stop and search ? Should they not stop and search certain ethnicities? Or people who drive certain cars? Or if a child is in the car? Or if there is a woman ? What would you suggest and bear in mind that the police need to be kept safe and have to make split second decisions.