Johnson and a new deal

Oh dear indeed Whitewave.

I would be interested to hear why you think it's alright for people to have children that they can't afford to feed and cloth

I will ask much the same question as I did before. After you have stopped finding a way to feel superior to others by labelling them how would you deal with children who need support. I know of no state or culture where difficulties don't arise in this way. What are you suggesting we do with these children Janpt?

But in any case if you are a family who were gainfully employed pre-covid and had a successful business which has gone bust, as a result of the crises.

Are you saying to these parents that they should have thought about it before they had children?

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds janpt

Just thinking of what has been done in the past and even today. I wonder if you are in favour of sterilising everyone who has had two children Janpt? Or perhaps, as happens in India, we should lop off an arm or take out a child's eye so they can be better at begging.

I is no use assuming you are superior to others, that your life is without blame, without coming up with another and different solution to the one we have.

GGumteenth Your comment is a different issue to people making a conscious decision about how many children they can afford to bring up without asking for support from the government.

And the current crises janpt?

This is where your theory absolutely falls apart isn’t it?

Whitewavemark2 Of course not don't you be so ridiculous. That is a completely different circumstance when hard working people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. Not like people who continue to have children knowing they can't afford them but irresponsibly rely on the government to continually pay up.

But that’s what this thread is about for goodness sake!!

It is about how we help those folk who are victims of this crises through no fault of their own survive in the coming months and maybe years (dont forget a no deal is always possible)

That is what Keynesian politics does it recognises that government spending is essential as a driver to boost the economy, that includes helping families and businesses.

And how many such people would you estimate there are Janpt? Have you any idea how much Universal Credit is worth? Did you realise that people don't receive anything for the third and subsequent child?

Janpt You seem a little obsessed with people who take pride in achievements. You mentioned that when you accused paddyanne of being a Labour Party member.

What have you ever done in your life which make you so proud?

Janpt

Whitewavemark2 Instead of a government which encourages people to take pride in their own achievements you would prefer a government which constantly props people up and gives them no encouragement to help themselves.

What does this have to do with stimulating the economy anyway?

growstuff Let's just say I am proud to support the values of a party which encourages people to take pride in their own achievements and not rely on government support. I acknowledge the fact that there are those who through no fault of their own need support but there are many others who take advantage and seem to think it's their right to continue to bring children into the world and expect the government to bring them up.

So janpt as you are accepting that there will be people who need help and it is almost certainly to run in the millions, them how does the government do this with what economic policy?

Goodness me.

JK Rowling, one of the richest people in the UK, relied on government support when her marriage broke down and left her with a child to support. She is now worth a huge amount of money to the UK economy through her books, films and HP spin offs.

You wouldn't have given her anything, Janpt. Well done...

Janpt and there are many companies who think it is ok to avoid paying tax (with politicians' agreement) which often runs into millions of pounds in lost revenue for the uk.

MaisieD Did I imply that? No I didn't I'm sure she would have received the support she was entitled to and by now will have more than paid it back and she only had one child.

Janpt

GillT57 I would be interested to hear why you think it's alright for people to have children that they can't afford to feed and cloth and rely on the taxpayer to bring them up. Especially when they have more than two. How irresponsible is that ?

You may think it's irresponsible to have children if you can't afford to but most people do plan and those that don't are in a minority. But you cannot and should deprive those children just because you consider the parents to be feckless.

Janpt

growstuff Let's just say I am proud to support the values of a party which encourages people to take pride in their own achievements and not rely on government support. I acknowledge the fact that there are those who through no fault of their own need support but there are many others who take advantage and seem to think it's their right to continue to bring children into the world and expect the government to bring them up.

Did you know that, apart from the disabled, there is almost nobody who relies on government support throughout their working life?

I've forgotten the exact figures, but the majority of people at some stage need a bit of a helping hand (including me). And that excludes child benefit/family allowance, which almost every parent receives/has received.

And let's not forget pensioners! Nearly everybody in the UK receives a state pension, if they are fortunate enough to reach pension age. The state pension is a benefit. Some people benefit from it and Pension Credit more than others.

If I were to be as mean-spirited as you, I would point out that as a high earner for most of my working life, I was unfortunate enough to be ill and needed help - all £70 a week of it! I worked hard throughout school, university and my job and I was proud of what I achieved. I have also paid more into the state pension system than most, but I will receive less than some people who have paid less and receive pension credit. That's fine because some people need money more than I do. I really don't want to see children, old people, the ill and disabled begging and dying on the streets.

There are people who have hardly ever worked in their lives, but rely on rents, inherited money or sponge off spouses.

Life really is a bitch! Get over it!

Janpt

GGumteenth Your comment is a different issue to people making a conscious decision about how many children they can afford to bring up without asking for support from the government.

Janpt Did you not receive the child allowance when you were younger (assuming you had children that is) People these days still get a form of child allowance. If fact I have clients who are able to manipulate their income so that they stay below the £50,000 limit.

Curlywhirly I am well aware of that. There are companies guilty of tax evasion on both sides.

Dinahmo I said nothing about depriving the children of feckless parents. I don't know where you got that idea from.

What does any of this have to do with Johnson's alleged New Deal anyway?

growstuff I don't need to get over anything. I have paid into the state pension just like you and everything I have has been earned. So don't preach to me about life. Your views mean nothing to me.

Dinahmo So you fiddle the books for your clients. That's something to be proud of.

Johnson is certainly willing to bow to his donors.

“Newt counting“ meaning our wildlife habitats are going to be destroyed where profit can be made.