Seems the jihadi bride Shamima Begum might be coming back to stand trial in the U.K.

He had Furret in spite of the fact that he hasn't spent much time in Canada (his father is Canadian). The Canadians of course regard the withdrawing of his UK citizenship as the UK abdicating responsibility and you have to admit they have a point.

So; do we think Jack Letts was just a silly young person who was led astray? According to his parents he suffered from severe OCD. Perhaps he also has psychological issues that caused him to so readily go to Syria . I don't know if that is the case , but there is another young man called Jake Bilardi who was described as being bullied severely at school. He converted to Islam , travelled to Iraq and at the age of 18, killed himself on a suicide mission. He is considered to have had psychological issues.
Whether they are ill, or in their right minds I feel that those who joined in by going to that area of the world must expect to be tried and punished if appropriate . If nothing else they supported terror and all that comes with it. I don't care if the people concerned were ethnically white or black or Asian or any of the above or none, the facts are that by the time they went most of the world knew what ISIS/ DAESH were up to.If anyone thought that their acts were acceptable then they deserve punishment, because they supported a murderous group of thugs.
Another point, a few days ago posters on another thread were up in arms about a 12 year old who tweeted an obnoxious message to a footballer. Apparently he deserved to be punished. And how do you feel about the boys who murdered James Bulger? Are they monsters or very damaged children?
I said at the time that I thought a 12 year old was probably so immature that he thought it was just a laugh. But we are supposed to dismiss a female who was 3 years older and had the means and knowledge to get herself into a war zone, knowing that it was just that. Did she think it was all a laugh? An adventure ? A means of escaping parental control but still keeping within guidelines for 'good Muslim girls'? Again I don't know, but I do think that she should not just slip back into the UK and get on with life when so many were denied that chance by the people she supported.

I don't think anyone has said she should "just slip back into the UK and get on with life" just that we should take responsibility for the mess UK citizens create and stop trying to pass the buck. That means bringing them back to the UK and having our justice system deal with them. Particularly when it is obvious that there is no functioning justice system where they are currently held.

But I think that is what worries people; she will be treated purely as a victim and will face no punishment at all. And that because she is an Asian we will be scared of being called racists and again she won't be punished; or because she is female she will get away with any crime she may have committed because she will be viewed as a victim.
I would also ask those who have legal knowledge ; what crimes might she have committed ? Can she be tried in the UK for crimes not committed in the UK? If no crimes were committed here ,then what?

I was also wondering if those on here that feel so strongly that SB was a poor, misguided child would be quite so vociferous in their support for a right wing, racist that left these shores to engage in the slaughter, rape and enslavement of people from a different culture.

She was OK with Yazidi women and children being sold as sex slaves before they were considered "non-believers". Now picture this scenario:

IS were victorious, managed to spread their evil to other countries and eventually UK became an IS ruled country. Your daughters and grand daughters, would, as non believers be sold as sex slaves, your sons and grandsons taken and forced to become suicide bombers. Would you still be considering this woman and others like her as a "victim" to be pitied?

Of course, the above was very unlikely to happen - but it did happen to people who lived in the countries over-run by IS - put yourselves in the position of the parents and grandparents of those poor Yazidi women and girls, the parents and grandparents of the young boys forced into suicide vests

There are extraordinarily unpleasant posts on this thread.

What we do know is that

A child left the U.K. after being groomed by jihadists to marry a terrorist residing in the Middle East.

She gave birth to three children who subsequently died.

She took part in and verbally supported horrendous atrocities that were unbelievably awful.

She is a British Citizen.

International law says that you cannot make one of your citizens stateless.

The U.K. has a responsibility towards all its citizens.

The law should take its course and the young woman dealt with. I am confident that the judiciary will deal with this case appropriately.

She is entitled to support and full advise from her lawyer and psychologist etc.

That’s it really.

Yes, that's about it.
Although we only have her word for it about her children.

There are an estimated 12 million stateless people in the world, despite international law, most through no fault of their own.

There are extraordinarily unpleasant posts on this thread

I haven’t read anything particularly unpleasant. I find the actions of SB extraordinarily ‘unpleasant’ to say the least.

Thereare some extraordinarily unpleasant posts on this thread

But nothing anywhere near as unpleasant as those actions admitted to by Begum.
Should we not be supporting the Kurds far more and enable them to seek justice for terrorist acts perpetrated against the Yazidis?

Thereare some extraordinarily unpleasant posts on this thread

And there have been some well researched and salient comments too.

Can I clarify, late in the day. My support for biba70 "well said biba" was a response to her first post about the difference in upbringing between Savid Javid and Shamina Begum. They may both be of Muslim heritage but their upbringings were totally different.
I cross posted with Biba and hadn't seen her second post, which suggested that if Shamina Begum was white the responses would be different. I disagree with that second post. I don't believe people would be less critical if Shamina Begum was from a white British family.

I understand now, Iam64

I felt that biba did not understand differences in Islamic beliefs, the fact that Mulims can be of any race or colour, as can Christians or people of any other religion, or, indeed, none.

And there have been some well researched and salient comments too.

I agree, contributions looking at all angles.

I've never really joined in a political thread before but this one had all the elements I could picture happening to any family, albeit in less horrific ways. I have learnt a lot, and am still mulling it all over.

Thanks Callistemon, I almost let it go because I'm responding so late on the thread but didn't want to appear to support the idea that a White British woman wouldn't be criticised as strongly as one of Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslim heritage.

This is an interesting thread, with contributions from many different points of view. Its encouraged us to reflect on our belief systems and importantly, on the legal system in this country which imo protects us as well as possible

trisher - “we should take responsibility for the mess UK citizens create”. The Middle East has never needed any help whatsoever in starting fights and warring amongst themselves for centuries, never mind anyone else. If the West completely ignored the whole area it would still be fighting over something.

I think we should look closely at why children commit crime, because if we dont it will just keep happening. Children will continue to be recruited because it's easy. I wonder what the success rate of the Prevent programme is, we only hear of its failures, I wonder what evidence there is of how effective it has been.

Glorybee we have been interfering in the Middle East for centuries-ever heard of the Crusades?
I was referring to the involvement of individual citizens, but yes, if you want to draw attention to it, Western involvement has been responsible for huge numbers of deaths, from Winston Churchill advocating the use of chemical weapons, the formation of Iraq and Iran after WW1, supplying weapons to Saddam Hussein, invading Iraq or any other covert operations we have been involved in. Including the supply of BEA systems enabling the Saudis to keep bombing Yemen.

Plus the removal of Saddam Hussein and the ensuing power struggle which led to the formation of Isis and the bloodshed that followed.

Bush and Blair have a lot to answer for but never will.

trisher - I was making a ‘broad brush’ point about the volatility of the general area. The crusades were a response to fighting that had already been going on for centuries. All nations have/had wars and skirmishes and we would have done well to have kept our nose out of the ME a lot of the time. I see a lot of comment around blaming ‘The West’ for all the ills of the ME but to imply it would be a haven of peace if it it wasn’t for’The West’ is laughable.

I think we should look closely at why children commit crime, because if we dont it will just keep happening. Children will continue to be recruited because it's easy. I wonder what the success rate of the Prevent programme is, we only hear of its failures, I wonder what evidence there is of how effective it has been.

Yes, Galaxy. The trouble is getting to be one step ahead. Tower Hamlets has pages and pages of policies on radicalisation amongst children but is fighting a losing battle. There are literally 1000's of websites preying on young peoples' vulnerability. As you say, it's easy to recruit the kids but so difficult for the Metropolitan Police to get on top of it. I've driven past the Academy many times, it's a huge school, and amongst that great number several pupils are bound to slip the net.

Glorybee perhaps not a haven of peace but also not necessarily subjected to the level of violence, the numbers of deaths and the devastation of civilisation which has been achieved through the weapons supplied by the west. We really cannot go on pretending that we are not responsible for what happens. One of the reasons the Iranians hate the US is because they supplied chemical weapons for Saddam to use against them in the Iraq/Iran war. The west wasn't fighting then but they were certainly responsible for the horrible deaths. You don't have to actively fight to be responsible.

Indeed trisher, but in a macabre way that backs up my point - they are bought by the Middle East to use in the Middle East. If the weapons weren’t available for sale by the West but available from China or Russia, then they would be purchased from there (they may well do so anyway).

There’s no way I’m condoning arms sales by anyone, the fact that peace seems so elusive and we never learn is constantly depressing.

I have read the posts and many people seem worried that S.B. can come back to the U.K. to plead her case.

The more I hear about it the more disturbed I feel. I acknowledge the fact she was 15 years old when she left the U.K. making her still a child however she would have known the reasons for the fighting in Syria and she was vowing her allegiance to it.

The worst terrorist atrocity I think about is the 2005 attacks.
Many called it 7/7 and those attacks which they planned as coordinated suicide attacks on the London transit system were appalling. Thirty nine people died and more than 700 people were injured. I always remember the red double decker bus with the roof torn off and there was 13 killed on that bus. Since then there has been many terrorist attacks in London all by these Muslim groups that are filled with hatred and show no mercy.
What is expected of the British people to not have concerns that S.B. is being allowed back to the U.K.

The problem isn’t just SB, as I understand it there are already about 400 IS returners now in the UK. We also allow people into the UK without sufficient checks on their backgrounds, I’m thinking of the Manchester Arena bomber, who wasn’t even a British citizen but was allowed to arrive and live here. I think he was from Libya, please correct if wrong.
I think, but again correct if I’m wrong, but I think we cannot charge people who commit crimes abroad in this country. If SB was to be charged, she would need to be charged in Syria, where she committed any crimes, if indeed she did commit crimes.
Unpalatable as it might be, we have a duty towards her as a citizen of the UK. I have no sympathy towards her, I’d rather she didn’t come back (along with all the others who already have returned) but I recognise the obligations of the UK.