Where are the Tory supporters who seem shy in defending the government?

When will all these working class people who voted Tory come to their senses? Why on earth did they think the Tories would do anything for them? Tories are only interested in the elite not the shop worker, the postman or the factory worker for example. Trouble is the working class have become a little more affluent and they think their status is a little higher so they vote Tory. Idiots!

Janpt

Whitewavemark2 Your comments about Conservative voters are only to be expected from someone as lacking in principles as you.

Sorry to butt In but in what way is whitewave lacking in principles please ? I think an accusation like that needs backing up.

Well this is the last day before parliament goes into recession and as a Labour supporter, I am very heartened indeed by the new leaders start. The link is to an article about the two leaders success or failures at the despatch box.

t.co/sDtLyHYUDE?amp=1

Ramblingrose The political threads interest me and I have learned from those who seem to be more politically minded than I am but it can be off-putting when people become overbearing and can't tolerate someone else's views.

I agree with your post.

Yes,the Russian issue is very troubling and successive Governments have done little to stop Russian oligarchs from coming here, buying up top end London property and using the UK for money laundering. Estate agents on commission were more than happy to benefit from this.

There is no justification for personal attacks though. Once upon a time when I used to debate with people whose views I didn't share I used to say to them "OK. What facts have I ignored or not fully understood ? How did you reach your conclusions? I am willing to be persuaded that I am wrong".

To those who indulge in name-calling, sarcasm and personal insults they are childish and unacceptable.

Just stick to the facts, give the evidence to back up your views and show some respect.

This seems to have become a match between Conservatives and Labour supporters.

I respect the views of both sides and some posts have been insulting to those who don't share another's view.

I support neither party but the Russian issue is worrying me.

Jabberwok has said that "people must be allowed to say what they feel, and others able to discuss without being subjected to sneers and jeers".

I agree with people being allowed to say what they feel, but only as long as they do so within the Gransnet Talk Guidelines.

Unfortunately several posts on this thread show that some are not"able to discuss" - they are only able to be rude, throw insults at others whose posts they disagree with and use nastiness and sarcasm in place of dealing with the issues raised. None of these take the debate any further.

I am pointing these things out in a constructive spirit and because I fear that Gransnet HQ may decide to suspend or remove the New and politics forum because it so often results in personal attacks, horrendous sarcasm and plain rudeness.

biba70

I actually blame Corbyn and Corbynites for not accepting he was un-electable, and not make way for someone who is. It has cost us thousands of lives, a huge Covid catastrophy- and a No Deal Brexit making us the puppets of Trump- and of course, Russian interference.

What on earth has Labour losing the last GE got to do with covid?

GrannyGravy13

Blair and SPAD Campbell were corrupt, took the UK into an illegal war killing thousands on both sides........but hey ho that’s ok because they were Labour

I am amazed that intelligent people actually think that the NHS will be sold? The Conservatives would never govern again if it were to happen.

No it wasn't all right because they were Labour. I think you'll find that many Labour supporters were against the war at the time and many more so shortly after the event. It is , after all, the main reson why Blair is disliked so much now.

Oh dear, I think it is more likely that nobody is going to oblige by providing the good works and successes of this Government because, sadly, at the moment, there aren't any. As soon as there are, I am sure there will be many threads singing their praises and discussing them.

lemongrove

Kandinsky ??
No flogging for me thanks.
True that I have better things to do though, and find these endless ‘let’s slag off the government’ threads both tedious and bitter.

trisher It wasn’t before the GE it was immediately after it (posters going missing in action)? that Grandad1943 was talking about.

Lemongrove
Why do you keep coming back and reiterating the same thing?

If you have something better to do, please go right ahead and do it.

Dinahmo you don’t get it...nobody is going to oblige you
Simply because they know it’s bait, not debate!

JenniferEccles

If other Tory supporters are anything like me they will be heartily sick of post after post day after day knocking the government.

You post thread after thread and then wonder why the rest of us are bored stiff with rising to the bait.

You don’t like the Tory government. I get that.
You wish Labour was in power. I get that too but there is no need to bang on about it, there really isn’t.

The sun is shining! Get outside and enjoy the summer!
Before long we will be heading into winter and your time will be taken up by telling us all how TERRIBLE everything will be after December 31st !!

I can’t wait ?

But you do rise to the bait, all of you. None of you have provided any info on govt good works and successes. We're still waiting.

Jabberwok

So upset about Cummings! What about other politicians, newspaper reporters, and God knows who else who also broke lockdown? No faux indignation about them!
No one can possibly say that the referendum would have had a different result. Looking at the squabbling financial mess that is the EU, thank God we've gone! The Tories lie and cheat? They're like Mary Poppins compared to the Commission who are probably the most unaccountable, lying,cheating organisation in the Western world. A trading block is one thing, but federalism? No than you,

You're behind the times! The EU have just signed a recovery plan for the member countries.

Dinahmo

Whitewavemark2

AGAA4

I am very concerned that the Russians may have interfered in the EU referendum.

The government turned a blind eye to the possibility that Moscow was involved and it has taken this long for the report to be published.

The government are taking vast amounts of money from Russian oligarchs. I find this worrying. Someone mentioned Londongrad. It seems they are having too much influence here in the UK.

It’s called money laundering.

Everyone with more than 2 brain cells must have wondered why so much unlived in property in London is owned by Russians.

Now we know it was facilitated by the Tories.

I'm very pissed off with this. I have to register for Anti Money Laundering with HMRC at what for me is a vast expense. I don't have clients who are Russian oligarchs, or who have off shore companies and they are not crooks.

Some of the London estate agents are now being fined for not following the AML rules.

This is opening a vast can of worms

biba70 Don't just blame Marxist Corbyn. The fact is the majority did not want a Labour government.

biba70

I actually blame Corbyn and Corbynites for not accepting he was un-electable, and not make way for someone who is. It has cost us thousands of lives, a huge Covid catastrophy- and a No Deal Brexit making us the puppets of Trump- and of course, Russian interference.

I agree with that. I have supported Labour and for a short while supported Corbyn, until I understood his poor leadership qualities.

Whitewavemark2

AGAA4

I am very concerned that the Russians may have interfered in the EU referendum.

The government turned a blind eye to the possibility that Moscow was involved and it has taken this long for the report to be published.

The government are taking vast amounts of money from Russian oligarchs. I find this worrying. Someone mentioned Londongrad. It seems they are having too much influence here in the UK.

It’s called money laundering.

Everyone with more than 2 brain cells must have wondered why so much unlived in property in London is owned by Russians.

Now we know it was facilitated by the Tories.

I'm very pissed off with this. I have to register for Anti Money Laundering with HMRC at what for me is a vast expense. I don't have clients who are Russian oligarchs, or who have off shore companies and they are not crooks.

Some of the London estate agents are now being fined for not following the AML rules.

I actually blame Corbyn and Corbynites for not accepting he was un-electable, and not make way for someone who is. It has cost us thousands of lives, a huge Covid catastrophy- and a No Deal Brexit making us the puppets of Trump- and of course, Russian interference.

GrannyGravy13- hope you enjoyed your birthday.

But honestly, anyone who would vote the same, be it Labour, be it Conservative or anything else- like an automaton- without examining the current performance and the current issues and massive mistakes made, bordering on treason (as it it what it is of course) - then I will find it very difficult to have any respect for- and yes, I will blame them, if need be.

Whitewave if you’re not bothered whether Conservative posters read your posts that’s fine ( most won’t anyway).
If you really did want them to engage in sensible debate then word your OP thread titles differently.
If you simply want lots of posts agreeing with you as an echo chamber...well, that’s fine too.

GrannyGravy13

Blair and SPAD Campbell were corrupt, took the UK into an illegal war killing thousands on both sides........but hey ho that’s ok because they were Labour

I am amazed that intelligent people actually think that the NHS will be sold? The Conservatives would never govern again if it were to happen.

I agree, I think what Blair did was a war crime. Neither he nor Bush have ever faced a criminal court as they should have done.

The NHS isn’t going to be sold. It is being parcelled out bit by bit. That is what the vote is about. We know that there are companies in the USA simply waiting for the law to be passed and a trade deal to be done and then you will begin to see what the Tories are intent on. There will always be some sort of clinical care which is free at the point of care, but what will happen is that less and less procedures will be available and the NHS will be a second rate service compared to the fee paying service..

I have experienced both in my life time, and frankly I would fight tooth and nail to retain the NHS.

lemongrove

I think you now know why most Conservative voters don’t bother with your threads much Whitewave
If you cut some of the confrontational stuff out ( as in disingenuous digs about posters and lies) and didn’t write the OP in that sort of way, then more posters may engage with the subject.

Yes but I’m not bothered whether they read my posts or not, I’m simply posting an opinion and hopefully having a conversation with those with whom I agree.

Never in a month of Sunday’s do I expect a right wing supporter to agree with what I’m saying, why would I?

Of course I expect some right wingers will hopefully join in a sensible debate, but they never do do they? They prefer to moan or deal in personal insults. And before you suggest my remark that those who said they don’t read my posts then do, I invite you to suggest what I am to make if it,

Blair and SPAD Campbell were corrupt, took the UK into an illegal war killing thousands on both sides........but hey ho that’s ok because they were Labour

I am amazed that intelligent people actually think that the NHS will be sold? The Conservatives would never govern again if it were to happen.

I have no problem whatsoever in accepting the results of the Referendum or the 2019 General Election. Neither went the way I wanted them to, but, hey ho, that's elections for you. What I do have a problem with is the Government's behaviour and decisions since it came into power. This thread is a News and Politics one, so it is only to be expected that when controversial political decisions are made, people will comment. Nothing wrong with that. If the roles were reversed and it was a Labour Goverment that had made some of the mistakes that Johnson and Cummings have made, I am sure there would be just as many disparaging comments from the Conservatives amongst us. During the run-up to the election (and even now) there were certainly plenty regarding Corbyn, plenty. Just saying.