Brown Sugar by The Rolling Stones

Oopsminty - thanks for your explanation.
I also can't believe that any of our Beatles would write a racist lyric.
A bit like the writers of the character Alf Garnet in To Death Do us Part.
We're losing our appreciation of sense of humour and especially satire.

ps I hope youtube never ban clips like this - brilliant satire on feminism and racism.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXM3Ch4FcDQ&pbjreload=101

And what about “Je t’aime”?

Still a very sexy song, love the tune.

It was banned also, remember listening to it on the jukebox in local pub, only chance we got to hear it.

?

I remember singing a hymn at my primary school -

Over the sea there are little brown children
Mothers and fathers and babies there,
They have not heard of our Father in Heaven...

But I can't remember the rest. Perhaps its for the best. Perhaps we should all just stop singing.

There are millions upon millions of songs and probably thousands upon thousands that have potential to offend.

This raises a number of questions, eg. are the lyrics overtly or covertly discriminatory, or provocative, promote illegal behaviour or activity or do they offend personal sensibilities. Surely if it's the latter then it's each to their own, or is that too simplistic?

Wow by Kate Bush?
Cracked Actor by David Bowie?
Spirit of the age by Hawkwind?
Fembot in a wet t-shirt by Frank Zappa?

Are,any these songs discriminatory/provocative/promote illegal activity or are they no more than offending personal sensibilities?

I know what I think.

Kendrick Lamar is on some higher level English curriculums for his critiques on racist cultures. I appreciate his language is challenging, but so is the language in some texts that are taught. I would link that section that Chewbacca quoted with the male character in the novel The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. An in depth examination of the psychological effects of internalised racism.

I personally don’t teach him, but I do teach Dave, the British rapper. The depth in some of lyrics is very good. He uses a lot of higher level techniques, such as code switching and stream of consciousness.

I know before you even type it what some of the responses to my post will be. All I’d say in response is that you’re not his target market. I have other comments that I won’t make, because it’ll set you off!

I'd never heard of him until today GagaJo but I'll take your word for it! When I googled him, it made no reference to any novel called The Bluest Eyes though.

I we don't like it or it offends we don't have to listen to it.
No, I'm not hus target market but my DC or even DGD may have heard of him so perhaps we should be more aware.

Callistermon which is why certain songs get banned from radio etc, it's not about censorship, it's about keeping all the listeners happy. Which honestly should be fine and not upset people because they can still listen in their own way.

Newer generations may never hear of it but getting newer generations to appreciate older things (including us at times) isn't always possible

I now realise that when I was 16 or so, I liked the song because it was a great tune, or I fancied the singer, or similar.

The words didn’t mean a lot, you just were immersed in it all.

It all seemed so simple.

Late to the party here but I can't understand the controversy about 'Baby, it's cold outside'. Surely that's just seduction? Or is seduction against the rules now?

It's not just women who are the victims in these songs.
Bobby Goldsboro. Summer ( the first time)
She was 31 I was 17.
I still love the song.

Or is seduction against the rules now

Very probably.

Gagajo

Genuine question. You said earlier in the year you were going to include ' Dave ' in your teaching.

How do you feel about the word 'N***A being removed from so many things these days , literature, music, spoken word etc. and yet in music it is totally acceptable and has a strong presence through music such as DRILL/GRIME/RAP. The fact mysoginy , sexual exploitation, violence, incitement etc. is apparently acceptable to one part of society to be vocalised and not to another, perversely those who want such things banned are often shouting the loudest such as ' Dave ', are those who are unoffended when using it themselves.

Is there not an absolute conflict of interest and pure hypocrisy going on.?

What do you tell your students re using the word, how do you manage to find a pathway through it all? I am positive your students understand the conflict of interest but are they taught to be self expressive and free thinking and if they use the words such as N****a, Hoe that is acceptable on a certain level or taught why it is offensive and not to use it. Which side of the debate does your teaching fall on.

Brown Sugar is actually a slang term for heroin, which is what I understand the song to be about.

Katek The Rolling Stones did do a couple of songs about heroin, most notably Sister Morphine. I think there's a debate about whether Brown Sugar is about heroin.
There are a quite a few songs out there about heroin. Many people didn't realise when it came out that Golden Brown by the Stranglers is about heroin. Mind you the Stranglers did like to be controversial - Peaches for example.

POGS, the N word is still in Of Mice and Men, which is taught in school. It is still in the texts of Toni Morrison, a giant of African American literature.

I am not entering into debate with you about the Dave tracks I have already taught, and will continue to teach. My students are able to enter intelligent debate about them. A shame it isn’t possible here, but horses for courses.

Try it Gaga .....why be so defensive?

Cross threads nagging lg?

Huh? I wondered why you won’t talk about ‘Dave’ .....it may have been interesting.

Callistemon

I we don't like it or it offends we don't have to listen to it.
No, I'm not hus target market but my DC or even DGD may have heard of him so perhaps we should be more aware.

Quoting myself but asking Gagajo why she thinks we have closed minds?

It could well be possible here.

Sorry Callistemon, it wasn't an all inclusive 'you'. Just a few individuals, but opinions about it have been on here before and people making the same comments again is just... boring.

As I said, not including all members in that.

Yes the watching you makes me nervous. I always turn it off when it comes on the radio. Bit creepy

GagaJo I’m sorry you put a stop because I’m illinformed. POGS and I often disagree but I always appreciate her input.
I’d heard the bbc fuss and apology for the N word. I didn’t feel the apology was needed but accepted the word shouldn’t be used by an organisation seen as representing white privilege.
I do find The level of hatred, violence, racism, misogyny and threats in many rap /grime very unnerving.

I agree to some extent Iam64. I don't listen to it as a rule, prefer R4 these days! But I was blown away by him at the Brits and watched a few of his music videos with my head of department. She said it before me 'He should be in the curriculum.'