on both sides of the pond- the extreme left is scuppering their own cause

ps plus the media.

Whitewavemark2

Labour members on Starmer as leader.

Approve: 77%
Disapprove: 6%
(Source: Opinium 25/07/2020)

So contrary to what some posters would have us believe, those disapproving are an incredibly tiny minority.

They have a few choices imo.

Shut up and show some loyalty.

Shut up and form a party which you feel supports your beliefs - like UKIP for example.

They could actually use all that hot air and turn it to good use by criticising this immoral, corrupt and incompetent government. There is so much to criticise it is almost embarrassing.

Whitewavemark2 have you any data in regard to the satisfaction of the affiliate membership with Starmer's leadership as I feel that may be a very different picture, especially with the gràssroots affiliate activists. In that, there are now thought to be under three hundred thousand direct Labour Party members (down from over half a million when Corbyn was leader) and approximately two and half million to three million affiliated members I believe.

As for us that are criticising Starmer shutting up, obviously there are those on the forum that wish to see no criticism whatsoever of the Great Dear Leader of the party. What a pity those who are now telling others to shut up did not carry out that themselves when Jeremy Corbyn was leader.

Of course, if the direct Labour Party membership do not wish to hear criticism of their Great Leader from us affiliate trade union members they always have the option to dis-affiliate from the Broader Labour Movement of Great Britain and go their own way in the political world and in that find their own funding.

Of Course, the TUC under its charter would have to launch a new socialist political party which would then be in direct competition to the present Labour Party and that would probably ensure that never again would there be a left of centre government in Britain.

So, the choice is for the Starmer worshipers to make. ?

Anyway coffee break over, so, back to work. ?

Just wondering where Starmer is and why he isn't taking advantage this exam fracas. Anyone like to tell me?

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has called for a return to teacher assessments for A-Level results “and urgent action to avoid the same injustice for GCSE students.”

“Weeks of chaos, confusion and incompetence,” he tweeted this afternoon, as dozens protested in central London against the downgrading of students pupils based on an algorithm.

“Boris Johnson has been invisible during this crisis. He needs to take personal responsibility, and fix it.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-a-level-results-twitter-boris-johnson-teacher-assessments-coronavirus-a9673021.html

Rather than appearing like spoilt kids whose fave didn't get to be voted head girl, maybe some in Labour should stop wasting time on factional squabbles and get behind their leader.

If they don't like his policies or think he's being ineffective, they should come up with something better and try to influence policies by grown up discussion.

Maybe they should try to persuade "red wall" voters that Labour policies are good and they've voted against their best interests.

From a left-wing perspective, a Labour government (even if it's more blue than they'd like) has to be better than the rabble we now have in charge.

I think Varian, that the left wing of the party might have felt more inclined to do as you suggest if the right wing had done the same thing with a leader that they didn't want. At least the left wing of the party are not organising a coup against the democratically elected leader.

Ilovecheese

I think Varian, that the left wing of the party might have felt more inclined to do as you suggest if the right wing had done the same thing with a leader that they didn't want. At least the left wing of the party are not organising a coup against the democratically elected leader.

I'm trying to work out which of varian's posts you're responding to here, *Ilovecheese8...

So am I Maizie

trisher

Just wondering where Starmer is and why he isn't taking advantage this exam fracas. Anyone like to tell me?

You haven’t been paying attention. He is all over the media.

Oh, sorry, I got mixed up , I was responding to growstuff's post of 13.32. Apologies to Varian and growstuff

Ilovecheese

I think Varian, that the left wing of the party might have felt more inclined to do as you suggest if the right wing had done the same thing with a leader that they didn't want. At least the left wing of the party are not organising a coup against the democratically elected leader.

They might as well be the way some of them talk.

Whitewavemark2 so he's released a statement that doesn't qualify as "all over the media" Andy Burnham has the right idea. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-level-results-andy-burnham-manchester-mayor-grades-a9671956.html
He spoke about it 4 days ago. It's a gift of an opportunity to say something, to support young people and where is he today?
Dinahmo I wish all the people who condemned Corbyn and spoke out about him would let others criticise a leader as they did. It seems Starmer has become worshipped as many accused Corbyn of being. I wonder what derogatory term we should invent for his supporters? But actually we are above that and we don't question the man's integrity, just where he stands on the policies we believe in. If only he would make things a little clearer.

With Boris as PM and the utter mess he is making of everything I believe that Labour have a good chance. But knowing the Tories I believe they will get rid of Boris as PM before the next election. Micky Mouse could do a better job

Grandad says : 'obviously there are those on the forum that wish to see no criticism whatsoever of the Great Dear Leader of the party. '

and again, I will ask, will you prefer to let ERG and Cummings and co come back and continue the destruction of what it best about our country. As someone else said above 'FFS what do you want?' - you have replied, but that choice is not on the table at all. Anyone from far left will NOT be elected. End of. So the choice is not difficult - electable Labour - or ERG?

What puzzles me, and I don't pretend to know everything about the splits in the Labour Party, is that Kier Starmer was loyal to Jeremy Corbyn and served on this front bench, whereas other prominent experienced Labour MPs were excluded, presumably because they were not regarded as sufficiently left-wing.

So why is it that after Kier Starmer was elected leader by the majority of members, the left wing of the Labour Party want to undermine him?

Fifth Column?

I can think of no other reason why LP members would want the Tories to be in power permanently.

Labour has a massive chance- but not bitterly divided and with extreme left wing agenda- the reality- even if one thinks a radical left win agenda would be best.

The Conservatives have already alienated the elderly with their actions (and inactions) during the pandemic.

Now, they're upsetting the youngsters with the exam results fiasco.

I think they're doing a very fine job of scuppering their chances at the next election - whatever Labour do!

varian because unlike Corbyn who was willing to have a cabinet from all sides of the party Starmer has created a right wing factionalist cabinet, sacking the only left wing member and replacing her with a right wing candidate. Now forgive me for thinking that doesn't bode well for socialism. As I have said so many times if only he would speak out about the asylum seekers, about the education fiasco and support those youngsters now demonstrating outside Parliament who know when the working class is being screwed.

Is Angela Raynor right wing trisher?

trisher- even if we agreed on this - will Starmer screw the working classe more than ERG and Cummings?

The thing is we had a leader passionate socialist that brought many people to join Labour including the young voters. He was not Establishment not afraid to stand up against the Establishment for his beliefs you knew what he stood for, people liked the polices. We nearly won in 2017

So his supporters lefty's like me want to see major change in how things are done a radical change from neoliberal. So who wouldn't get riled when it seems things are going back to the right again.

Starmer seems like he don't want to rock the boat keep things as they are no fight no passion looks scared. What does he believe in? Why is he pro Isreal?

Will wait time will tell. Hold judgement for now. But Agree Labour right would be better than Tory.
That's my thoughts for what it's worth.

Grany

The thing is we had a leader passionate socialist that brought many people to join Labour including the young voters. He was not Establishment not afraid to stand up against the Establishment for his beliefs you knew what he stood for, people liked the polices. We nearly won in 2017

So his supporters lefty's like me want to see major change in how things are done a radical change from neoliberal. So who wouldn't get riled when it seems things are going back to the right again.

Starmer seems like he don't want to rock the boat keep things as they are no fight no passion looks scared. What does he believe in? Why is he pro Isreal?

Will wait time will tell. Hold judgement for now. But Agree Labour right would be better than Tory.
That's my thoughts for what it's worth.

But Corbyn resigned!!!

biba70 quite honestly I suspect that actually he would. The damage Blair did still lingers long after the few reforms he brought in have run out of steam. He left a legacy of distrust it was hard to counteract. In fact it echoes in my distrust of Starmer. You see when small adjustments are made in a system which represses some people and promotes others the system remains and the small adjustments are easily and quickly readjusted back to the norm which favours some more than others. So actually to imagine that the system is changed by people or those with views like Starmer is simply wrong things may be temporarily delayed but in the end it changes nothing and those little changes can be quickly removed.

Yes I know that Whitewavemark2 I am just explaining why people feel passionate as they do about politics changing to how they were, to the right. And how they might want to get try to change things some way.