Get back to the office! But why?

Grandad says Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift
Wow Grandad is that true? How draconian.

Lots of issues raised on this thread re working from home or in town hubs, lots of pros and cons but nothing that can't be overcome. Fascinating discussion.

LauraNorder

Grandad says Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift
Wow Grandad is that true? How draconian.

Lots of issues raised on this thread re working from home or in town hubs, lots of pros and cons but nothing that can't be overcome. Fascinating discussion.

I believe that it is true.

We have a neighbour who used to work for BT - repairs and installations. He would be sent a schedule each morning of that day's appointments. Time was allocated to each job but didn't take into account the circumstances. So for example, there could be a call out to an elderly person where the access of the cables to the house was overgrown and time would be needed to clear the area. They were also told when to take their lunch. In other words, his working day was controlled by a faceless person in an office.

When I read about Grandad's dangers of working at home, I really think that teachers should be paid danger money!

Those trackers are able to show on screens in the operations office where an employee is at any moment while in the warehouse and how long they have been in that same place etc. Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift.

As a strong union person, do you endorse practices like this, Grandad?

MaizieD in regard to your post @18:51 today, when our company is engaged to carry out safety investigations, audits or training within these distribution centres I am at times personally appalled at the working conditions and procedures that the employers inpose on their staff.

However, we are always called in at the behest of the employer, an insurance company or at times by the HSE which is always following a safety incident.

In that capacity is not for me or any of our staff to state their opinion of the working conditions or procedures unless those terms of employment contributed to the safety incident under investigation.

In that way, we safeguard the future of our company and the security of employment of our employees.

There is also the fact if people wish to tolerate such conditions without organising to oppose, then that is the choice of those employees.

I do recall being one distribution centre where the order pickers were instructed to wear Tracker Belts as they moved around the centre in the course of their work. Within the centre managers office there was a huge screen on the wall with green marker lights showing continuously the position of each picker in the warehouse.

If any picker was in the same position for three minutes the marker.light would turn amber. On four minutes the marker light would turn red and the internal CCTV cameras in that section of the centre would turn to concentrate on the worker. The video from those cameras would then be transmitted to the operations and site managers offices.

That centre manager described to me while I was there how the system worked and how proud he had been when his site had been chosen to be one of the first to have such equipment installed.

That was an occasion when I really had to bite my tongue in the course of my work.

Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift.

Is that legal?
Good grief, so glad I never worked for an employer like that!

The right to access a toilet is a basic human need. Unless both the employee and employer agree to compensate the employee on rest breaks an employer cannot take away the worker's right to access a toilet room while working.
The law is not clear in New Zealand, United Kingdom, or the United States of America as to the amount of time a worker is entitled to use a toilet while working. Nor is there clarification on what constitutes a 'reasonable' amount of access to a toilet.[2] Consequently, the lack of access to toilet facilities has become a health issue for many workers.[3] Issues around workplace allowance to use a toilet has given light on issues such as workers having to ask permission to use a toilet and some workers having their pay deducted for the mere human right of using a toilet when they need to

How Dickensian.

It sounds ridiculously far fetched, but I've read reports of these kinds of conditions in a certain very well know warehouse.

How four companies optimised remote working

This is a really short and interesting article and tackles many of the issues raised on this forum. How good bosses work it,

Big employers in The City, Canary Wharf etc will do whatever is in their financial interests. Over the past months listening to the business interviews on the Today programme they all claim it has been working well and productivity has remained or improved.

From recent interviews it seems many are planning to have mixture of home/office working, which seems the most sensible.

I think it wrong for the government to be pushing for immediate return - we should first see how infection numbers go with the return of schools & universities.

I agree about The City and Canary Wharf Riverwalk. Those big companies have enough money behind them to get this right for their employees. As Furret says, they are good at tackling such issues and it is also very much in their own interests to strike a successful balance.
I know some people on here don't like examples of everyday folk, but all our family are in employment thanks to people who work on that patch. The latter are the ones with money admittedly, but they are astute enough to make that money work for them. The number of people building garden offices is soaring, as well as home gyms for exercise. 35k is the average cost, our daughter had one constructed. Also city workers are buying up houses to convert 10 miles or so out, but keeping their flats in town to let out. Ironically there is still no shortage of tenants willing to spend £2k per month on rent.
I have come round to believing things will move forward quickly in the profitable sectors. The pandemic has just hastened that which was going to happen anyway.

BBC news today:

Outsourcing firm Capita is to close over a third of its offices in the UK permanently, the BBC understands. The firm, which is a major government contractor, is to end its leases on almost 100 workplaces.

Business lobby group CBI has warned that the fall in office working is damaging city centre economies. It comes as the government prepares to launch an advertising campaign encouraging more people to return to workplaces.

The BBC understands that Capita, which manages London's congestion charge, has been looking at various measures to help it simplify its business for some time, such as embracing more flexible working, which is supported by its employees.

So far, Capita has decided not to renew leases on 25 offices.

As per my post on 28/8; the repercussions will affect far more than the corner sandwich shop and coffee bar. Unless, and until empty office blocks are repurposed, this will mean no Business Rate taxes being paid and so City and Borough councils will have a much reduced revenue which, in turn, will affect every resident in the area.

Councils will need to prepare plans to acquire and use the empty buildings as soon as they can, and convert them to uses that will bring in revenue. Housing and local shops, community centres and services, startup premises and workshops would be good uses. If they don't do this, commercial interests will overtake them and get any income that is available.

Chewbacca, in regard to your post @
09:35 today, the news on Capita is not surprising as they are a company that through poor planning and management now have deep financial problems.

They have been asking all employees earning over £70,000 per year to accept substantial pay reductions. They have also allowed their 60,000 other staff to build up holiday entitlement during the Covid Crisis which they are now having problems in meeting all those accrued payments.

The Capita share price has dropped substantially over the last few months as revenue from running the London congestion charge etc has dropped hugely.

However, I do agree with you that the Capita action in attempting to overcome its large financial problems may be a guide to how other companies badly affected by the Covid-19 crisis will approach their problems.

Certainly one to think about there. Thank you for the post chewbacca.

In the case of the City of London, I can't say I'm too worried about an increase in residential council tax charges. Council Tax for a Band C residential property in the City of London is £864.59. A Banc C property in Liverpool is £1802.08 - more than twice as much.

Council Tax in Westminster for Band C is £693.58.

In Edinburgh, Band C Council Tax is £1,135.47, and water is £182.72

Business Rates Council tax isn't calculated the same as domestic council tax. In London or anywhere else in the UK.

Here in one of the poorest boroughs in the country we have one of the highest rates of CT . Not far from where I live a developer has repurposed a large call centre ( long since closed) into luxury apartments. It’s in a lovely setting but they can’t sell them as not many people around here can afford them . It won’t matter how many businesses close our LA will just keep cutting services and putting the CT and business rates up to cover the inflated salaries of their executives. All currently “working” from home. We are fast becoming a very divided society. The private sector struggling to keep afloat and pay wages, pensions, NI contributions v the public sector “ I’m alright Jack”

Chewbacca

Business Rates Council tax isn't calculated the same as domestic council tax. In London or anywhere else in the UK.

I know it isn't. You were the one who wrote that loss of income from business rate taxes would affect residents. In the case of the City of London, it's about time they paid the same as people in other parts of the country.

Not true, gillybob. Public sector jobs keep the North East afloat. If you didn't have them, you'd be stuffed. There are a higher percentage because decisions were made to provide employment. Working in the public sector isn't as rosy as you always claim.

the public sector “ I’m alright Jack”

The public sector includes doctors, nurses, policemen, emergency services to mention just a few.

All paying taxes and using local businesses.
I've worked in both public and private sectors and can honestly say that the public sector was harder; perhaps that was the particular sector.

You were the one who wrote that loss of income from business rate taxes would affect residents.

Oh come on growstuff, surely you can appreciate that in any city or town, there is a mix of both residential and commercial properties, all paying either domestic or business rate council tax. Therefore, if you have a high percentage of vacant properties, either domestic or business, they are not now going to be paying their council taxes. That, in turn, will have a negative impact on the amount of revenue that that council has in their coffers to spend on services such as social services, amenities, schools etc. It makes no difference whether the empty properties are business or domestic; the impact on loss of revenue is the same and does adversely affect those who live in that borough.

As for City of London rates.... well, we agree on something.

Chewbacca local authorities recognised many of the issues months if not years ago. They are currently looking at different ways to use town centres, in many cases those plans are very well advanced. This has accelerated the process but it was happening anyway.

The City of London is an anomaly - it's tiny (Square Mile) with only around 10,000 residents. Financially they don't need to charge the residents anything but that wouldn't go down well with the rest of the country!

growstuff

Not true, gillybob. Public sector jobs keep the North East afloat. If you didn't have them, you'd be stuffed. There are a higher percentage because decisions were made to provide employment. Working in the public sector isn't as rosy as you always claim.

But the fact is growstuff we are sleesdy stuffed . Well and truly . I work on an industrial estate and businesses are closing left right and centre. Huge redundancies announced in several larger businesses too. My neighbour is currently working on making 100’s of people redundant when furlough ends and that’s the tip of the iceberg . Our region cannot survive on public sector jobs alone although I doubt there will be any cutbacks in the town hall . Private sector wages here are among the very lowest in the UK and there are going to be less and less paying into the system.

My LA put my factory rent up last year by 20% in one go . How could they justify that ?

In my town * Calli* nurses, teachers, civil servants, police officers are by far the best off. Hard to believe eh? But it’s true .