Get back to the office! But why?

I wondered why this thread had got so long! I can't believe people (most of whom are retired I'd guess) are arguing that others should be forced back to work in offices so that rich owners/landlords of office buildings can protect their profits and cafes can continue to provide poorly paid with poor conditions employment for some poor s*ods!
Two out of three of my adult children are working at home for generous and wise employers. They work long hours but are pleased not to have to pay out huge amounts for travel on our our privatised, expensive, inefficient system. They didn't spend money on lunches etc out anyway.
We are indeed in line for a massive shake up aided by Brexit. Just as Brexit won't return us to 1950s Britain, hopefully the mates of our elitist, nepotist government won't hold all the cards. There are a lot of young people who are suddenly seeing the need for direct action, The demise /destruction of the trade unions was a disaster for pay and conditions, roll on change, it is sorely needed.

Varian, I was on the thread grandad referred to and you said nothing of the kind. I am sure you dont need me to tell you that . The thread referred to was about the left in the UK and USA and is in the news and politics section, page 15 is what grandad is referring to. I think it's important when people say things about other posters that people have a way to check the truth. for you varian .

Thank you Galaxy

How lovely it would be to go back to the good old days pre-covid. People packed like sardines on trains or in traffic jams miles long. Tired before they have even started their day's work knowing they have a similar commute at the end of it.
Catching colds and flu in the office or on the commute to make life even better.
I can't see any sense at all in this when many people are working efficiently at home. They can work longer hours without the commute and are not as likely to take time off sick.
It would free up transport for others who have to go into work such as NHS staff.

Let's not forget either Luckyoldbeethoven all those people in whatever capacity have worked right through this pandemic. There is a lot of concentration on the plight of the poor office worker.

People who are working from home are still working though. No one has forgotten those who cannot work from home. This thread is about office workers who can actually work from home, some of whom prefer it, as do some of their companies. Maybe this pandemic will change the nature of cities. There will be losers, but there will be winners as well .

vegansrock

People who are working from home are still working though. No one has forgotten those who cannot work from home. This thread is about office workers who can actually work from home, some of whom prefer it, as do some of their companies. Maybe this pandemic will change the nature of cities. There will be losers, but there will be winners as well .

I believe that the title of this thread is "Get Back To The Office! But Why".

That does not indicate that it is exclusively for discussion on those that have been working from home for they are the minority. The majority have been furloughed without any work whatsoever as their employer's companies were completely shut down.

Neither did the majority work in offices as substantial numbers of furloughed persons worked in cafes, pubs, restaurants, hotels, and the entertainment industry which many on this thread would see thrown into unemployment without a second thought.

And some of those claim to be Labour supporting in their political views.

Grandad the cafes, pubs and restaurants in my area are open and seem to be thriving. I think you are referring to city life in mainly London. Innovative people will find another way to make money.They usually do.
This is an opportunity to live in a different way. Pre-covid life was certainly not a bed of roses for many.

We are not going to return to our previous "normal".

We need to reinvent the world of work. We recognise that there are some very essential jobs which can never be done from home - bus driver, surgeon, supermarket shelf stacker, fire-fighter, factory worker, builder.

Most of these workers have continued to do their work, sometimes at considerable risk, throughout the pandemic and we should all appreciate their contribution to our health and safety and to our economy.

There are many other jobs which have been done successfully by workers based at home or perhaps just occasionally going to a place of work - architects, solicitors, clerical and administrative workers, researchers, writers, broadcasters, artists, designers. There is absolutely no good reason for people in these occupations to return to commuting on a crowded bus or train to an office if they can be just as productive working from home.

There are other types of workers who may have to face the fact that that in the future, their job prospects will be limited and the best option for many of them will be to retrain. The Liberal Democrats policy of lifelong learning means that in the future many will have to change career but that should be viewed as a challenge and supported by learning opportunities for people of all ages.

AGAA4

Grandad the cafes, pubs and restaurants in my area are open and seem to be thriving. I think you are referring to city life in mainly London. Innovative people will find another way to make money.They usually do.
This is an opportunity to live in a different way. Pre-covid life was certainly not a bed of roses for many.

Even innovative people will find it difficult to have an opportunity to find a different way of life with three to four million unemployed in a deeply recession-hit Britain.

Indeed that different way of life may well be to join that four million unemployed. However, do not let that concern you in any way AGAA4.

We need a serious retraining programme to help those unempolyed into the industries of the future - particularly green technology and digital industries.

You are absolutely right about the need for lifelong learning Varian this was also Labour party policy before the last election, hopefully it still is.

Grandad people going back to the office isn't going to make much difference to the damage that Covid has done to the employment market.
To say I am not concerned about this is an uninformed view. I have children and teenage grandchildren who are and will be affected by this pandemic.
But everyone going back to the office will make everything better in your view.

I think this demand that everyone gets back to the office because some people don’t work in offices is illogical. My youngest son can easily work at home and go into the office once a week. His wife works for the NHS and actually can work at home and just go in for outpatients appointments that need face to face consultation( not all of them do). Forcing people onto overcrowded transport in the belief that it is somehow unfair on those who have to travel smacks of sour grapes. Keeping the sandwich industry afloat is not a good enough reason.

Our son wanted to book a table for four after work in town this evening at his favourite restaurant. Fully booked, just one slot left at 9.15 pm. Similar at other comparable restaurants (London). Seems high end restaurants are still getting the business. Maybe they will be the ones to survive whereas the coffee shops and sandwich bars will suffer.
(Sadly he wasnt inviting me along!)

People who need not go back to working in an office, but are pushed back for no good reason, will make commuter trains and buses busier, city streets busier and lifts in high rise buildings busier -and almost certainly increase the community transmission of the virus - for no good reason. Protecting our health is the best way to protect the economy.

varian, in regard to your post @18:19 do you not realise that there is a major crisis rapidly coming about in public transport. Many of those now having no other option but to physically return to their workplaces due to the nature of that work are using their cars rather than buses and trains were very close proximity to others and the use of face masks over a protracted period can be concerning and uncomfortable.

Evidence to the above can be witnessed now on Britain's motorways and major trunk roads with (by example) it taking an hour to do ten miles on the approach to the large Avonmouth and Severnside industrial estates this morning and at one time an eight-mile traffic jam on the M5-M4 interchange to the north of Bristol. That congestion can only become even worse as ever more return to commuting to their workplaces in their own private vehicles.

The time is rapidly approaching when the bus and train operators will have to dramatically cut services if commuters cannot be encouraged to return to using public transport. That will affect many older people who rely on public transport for those off-peak services as those services will also disappear with those vehicles being withdrawn as they are often run at a loss outside of peak periods.

Local councils are very unlikely at the present time to increase their subsidy to those services.

Great for carbon-free environmental friendly Britain.

A friend who has been working throughout said her general health and that of her colleagues has been so much better since they’ve all been WFH. She hasn’t had a single cold or other illness while they’ve been off. She said previous winters were a misery because the demands of presentee-ism meant that people came into work with dreadful colds and bugs, infecting everyone else.

She doesn’t miss that and feels she’s more productive anyway partly because she feels well and also she’s not constantly interrupted so can concentrate more.

Well it would make sense then for those who can and want to work from home to do so and help reduce the pressure on the road system and the environment.

Lucky friend that she can stay so healthy SueDonim others don't have that choice.

Grandad1943

growstuff

No employer would want to risk facing a class action if he/she were to try to force employers back to working in an office, unless a safe working environment could be provided.

Employers are the best judges as to whether employees have been working efficiently at home and the pandemic might have forced some changes in attitudes towards a more flexible way of working.

As long as any employer has carried out all that is reasonably possible to ensure the safety of the workforce as defined under the Health & Safety at Work Act there is little or no chance that legal action of any kind would be successful.

In a huge number of instances, it has been the insurers that have pushed employers to bring about the highest possible standards of protection against Covid-19 infection under the guidance of the Health & Safety Executive and consultancy Safety companies.

Strangely enough I have talked to my daughter, who is an HR Manager, and a friend, who is a specialist lawyer, about this very topic. That's how I know I'm not talking about rubbish about this.

Both are fully aware of the laws relating to Health and Safety at work. In many cases, it is just not possible to ensure that all staff are two metres apart, which is the government's current recommendation. Staff with pre-existing conditions such as T2 diabetes are a special concern, especially as they are already covered by the Equality Act.

It is a genuine concern to people who really know their stuff about employment law that if anybody should become seriously ill or die after being forced to work in unsafe conditions (ie less than two metres) that expensive litigation could result. It is not only the offices, but the stairs and the lifts and the travel to work (unless they were able to "beam me up" to the office).

sodapop

Lucky friend that she can stay so healthy SueDonim others don't have that choice.

Are you suggesting a race to the bottom in employment conditions?

Fewer people on public transport and out and about in the community generally leads to a safer environment for those who do have to leave their home to work.

varian Quote [The Liberal Democrats policy of lifelong learning means that in the future many will have to change career but that should be viewed as a challenge and supported by learning] End Quote.

varian the above must be the biggest joke ever placed on this forum. While in a coalition government with the Tory Party from 2010 until 2015 the Liberal Democrats broke a long-standing pledge to their young supporters that should they be elected to government they would never bring in University Tuition Fees.

What happened, the Liberal Democrats sold those young supporters down the river with that pledge just to buy themselves into power in that coalition government. Therefore do you expect varian that the electorate will ever trust the Lib Dems in anything they say and pledge in regard to education especially when their new leader was a leading member of that coalition government?????????

Sodapop, you think it’s better that as many people as possible are ill? What a horrible attitude!

One of the reasons we had lockdown was to save the NHS. Most people with coughs and colds don’t need NHS treatment but some do, people such as my severely asthmatic son, or my small GD who was hospitalised three times last year with respiratory difficulties caused by colds.

No of course I don't think that SueDonim I've just got fed up with hearing about the poor office workers. Yes I did read the thread title, now I'll go away and leave you to it.