Cultural appropriation

What will some people come up with next.

Shakespeare's plays "portray" Italians, Danes, north Africans, ancient Britons, fairies, etc pretty well, I think. Theatre and other productions do depend on people having an imagination and, to some extent, using stereotypes. Some stereotypes are actually useful. Steve Stewart Williams's book The Ape that Understood the Universe is good on that.

Trisher I think it is fine to teach or talk about the these things but to imagine we can in any way experience or portray those events is wrong.
It seems to me there’s rather a fine line between teaching about something and portraying it. Are you saying that it’s ok to teach school children about slavery (and the role Britain played in freeing slaves and the Abolition movement), but not for them to enact a drama about it?
What about a British-born black actor who has never even been to the USA portraying a slave in a film or play? Is that ok because he’s black, or not ok because he’s British?
Or ok as long as it’s directed by an African-American who can trace his ancestry back to a plantation in Georgia?
I’m not arguing with you, just asking genuine questions. It does get a bit complicated when you start to think about it.

Cornrows always look like a very practical hairstyle to me.
If we see something that looks like a good idea, are we not allowed to follow suit?

Adele has recently been in the news for wearing her hair in a traditional African hairstyle, some accused her of cultural appropriation, although several high profile British Black people, Naomi Campbell and, David Lammy to name but two defended her and didn't see it that way at all. Surely we all appropriate bits and pieces of other nations culture through a multitude of different things, language, food, dress sense, cinema, theatre, art. Nowadays we live in a global world. Isn't imitation a form of flattery anyway? Beyonce often appears with blonde hair, shock horror she's not actually Nordic, neither are most people who appear to be blonde, as natural blondes are less than 2 per cent of the population, do they mind ??? and should we care what any individual chooses to do with their own hair

I find this topic interesting, but I don't really understand the nuances.

I remember the fuss over The Help, but am not sure whether that means that we should only be 'allowed' to write about our own experiences. If that is the case, then science fiction, fantasy and a lot of historical fiction will be thin on the ground, as will many other topics. On the other hand, I can understand that it can be annoying to be represented by others who really don't understand our lives.

It is not often, IMO, that men can write convincing female characters, and some of the TV representations of working class people used to be atrocious in the days when only white middle class men wrote scripts.

When it comes to fashion, however, I can't see the harm, but that could be because I spent my younger days in cheesecloth, afghan coats and smelling of patchouli and sandalwood .

I could well be missing something, and would love to hear from someone who understands better than I do, as it is clearly something that does cause offence, which I wouldn't like to do, even unintentionally.

I still like patchouli and sandalwood Doodledog

Apparently Adele grew up in Tottenham and her friends were from Jamaican roots so she has been defended by Naomi Campbell and David Lammy because they don’t see it as an insult or a slight and it wasn’t intended that way.

TerriBull imitation is not always seen as a form of flattery. When I was young a cousin’s mum would always buy her clothes similar to mine as soon as I got them. My mum said what you did but I just found it blooming annoying.

janeainsworth I think for adults it is largely to do with your personal feelings and opinions about what you are willing to be involved in. Should you decide that you feel you are OK with a particular project you would then be able to justify your involvement, and reply to any criticism you receive. I think most white people if they thought about it would think the only role they could legitimately assume in Sharpeville for example would be the white SA police.
Culture isn't about where you were born- the USA and Britain share a similar culture, so roles can be interchangeable.
For children I think it is up to the adults around them to explain that although they may play a particular part they should recognise their own and others cultural background.
As for the African director I think this is something really to be desired as it opens up fields in which diversity has often been lacking.

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by. Social media highlights issues and then all the world and his dog want their opinion out there. Who cares? Not me. It’s a hairstyle choice (either way). Get over it and move along.

Urmstongran

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by. Social media highlights issues and then all the world and his dog want their opinion out there. Who cares? Not me. It’s a hairstyle choice (either way). Get over it and move along.

And yet....you want your opinion out there too

As a family we have been holidaying in the Caribbean for thirty years DD and DS’s all had their hair in cornrows as soon as we arrived. It was a lucrative business for local ladies.
Cannot see the problem myself.

I think CA is a really silly notion. I live in a bungalow, that is an Indian word and design of property, should I demolish it? Bras were a french invention so should we not be allowed to wear one. Should the Japanese and other nations not wear western dress but only wear kimonos. Should the Inuit only wear furs. Every nation has borrowed from others in matters of clothes, food, religion and so on. We are all an homogenised mix and IMHO all the better for it.

It’s not simply about borrowing from other cultures, it’s about power and oppression. Cornrows were worn by slaves in the US but later on, if black women wore them, they were told it was unprofessional. Yet suddenly, cornrows are okay when white women have them.

Black women can emulate blond hair without offence because white women have never been subjugated and enslaved on the scale that black women have been.

I read recently that the American football team, the Washington Redskins, have finally agree to drop the latter part of their title. Native Americans have long had a grievance that the team had usurped their culture, using their sacred feather headdresses as entertainment, when the native peoples in the US were almost annihilated by white colonists and settlers. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee is one of the most traumatising books I’ve ever read.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/53520772

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by
Years ago there were notices proclaiming "No blacks, No Irish" Years ago people were referred to in derogatory terms for their racial origins, terms we no longer use. We have moved on. Acknowledging that some things are unacceptable that some aspects of culture belong to other people is simply another step forward. There will be people who can't understand this just as there are still people who use unacceptable language, but things will change.

Trisher Culture isn't about where you were born- the USA and Britain share a similar culture, so roles can be interchangeable

I think the culture, and cultural influences, are very different both between different parts of the USA (most obviously north vs south) and between the USA and Britain.
People with British heritage make up quite a small percentage of the population - the largest group of White Americans is of German heritage.
The largest ancestries of American whites are: German (17%), Irish (12%), English (9%), Italian (6%), French (4%), Polish (3%), Scottish (3%), Scotch-Irish (2%), Dutch (2%), Norwegian (2%) and Swedish (1%).[11][12][13] However, the English and British Americans' demography is considered a serious under-count as the stock tend to self-report and identify as simply "Americans" (7%), due to the length of time they have inhabited the United States, particularly if their family arrived prior to the American Revolution.[14] The vast majority of white Americans also have ancestry from multiple countries.
From Wikipedia
That of course is in addition to the cultural influences of African-Americans, and Hispanics.
Maybe amongst all the talk of cultural appropriation, we should spare a thought for the Native Americans who comprise only 1% of the population.

Sorry Suedonim I’ve only just read your post referring to the Native Americans.
I agree it’s about power and oppression.

That would be non-opinion’ Summerlove
?

janeainsworth

Here it is www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/don-t-dip-your-pen-in-someone-else-s-blood-writers-and-the-other-1.3533819%3fmode=amp

That's a really good explanation, Jane. Thanks - it has cleared up some of the things I was unsure about.

janeainsworth My response about British and American culture was a response to the question of a British black actor taking the role of an American slave. All cultures include things which have come from other places- we celebrate New Year now in much the same manner as the Scots, but that wasn't the same in the 1950s.
Of course Native American culture has been destroyed and demeaned by white American culture, so has the Inuit culture. It is the same process that was applied to African culture in the past. For a long time it was said that Africans had no culture that they were a primitive people, we now know differently. The process of recognising other cultures and appreciating them properly is a long one and acknowledging cultural appropriation is just one step

Isn’t all this cultural appropriation nonsense just another example of an increasing number of individuals seemingly delighted at finding something to be outraged at?

Even better if the faux outrage hits the news and even better if a business or high profile person is forced to offer an unnecessary, grovelling apology and promises to remove/change the ‘offending’ item.

It’s attention seeking and a great pity that it’s not just dismissed as nonsense.

It seems to me that ‘being offended’ is the trump card to play.

Personally, I think it’s wokeish nonsense and only works one way as usual.

Baggs. I love your ”leagues of identitarian victimhood”.

Definitely attention seeking and if there is a hint of monetary compensation for hurt feelings resulting in the inevitable ‘mental health’ problems well even better.