Cultural appropriation

It's ridiculous to ignore this. The Victorians knew how valuable and effective it was to suppress a country's culture. They did it everywhere they ruled. Even Ireland suffered, the Irish language was forbidden, Irish music and dancing were banned. The resurgence of cultural differences and the idea of cultural appropriation are steps on the way to recognising and restoring those cultures. It is certainly not "wokeish nonsense" although I am sure those Victorians would have agreed with you.

If cornrows are about slavery why are they so fashionable for black people? It takes hours to do it so why would they? In the Caribbean many schoolgirls wear them and look beautiful. They appear poor with darned uniforms but they can express themselves with their hair, they are not oppressed by it.

I have black family members and they think this is daft. One is particularly close, is very successful and has several times been approached by the media to talk about black issues. When they have agreed they have always said that they have never been treated differently because of the way they look. Not all black people experience racism, some do but not all.

Many of the things that are beloved as cultural icons don't really suit foreigners.

When George the Fourth (previously the Prince Regent) visited Edinburgh in 1822, the first visit of a reigning monarch to the northern kingdom for 170 years, Walter Scott, who was organising things, issued a dress code for the event. Scott's enthusiasm for the traditions of Scotland decreed that tartan and the kilt (banned for many years as a subversive cultural icon) should be worn by all.

George wore a kilt, of course (he was very fond of dressing up) . It was far too short, and showed too much of his fat legs, so he insisted on wearing bright pink silk stockings to hide them. On the contrary, they drew attention to his inelegant shape and made him a figure of ridicule, not what he planned at all.

Yes and I believe the Brighton Pavilion built in the reign of George the fourth, or possibly when he was Prince Regent, was inspired by eastern style architecture hence the onion Byzantine domes. Lord Byron was often seen in an eastern mode of dress around the same time.

Huh! - And code switching - did you ever have a job where you could just go and 'be yourself'. I am from Liverpool - certainly wouldn't have got an 'inside' job speaking anything other than RP. And when we oldies started work trousers were forbidden and make up mandatory but only when 'discrete'. People have always had to tweak their presentation to fit in.

I don't know where this perception that cornrows are anything to do with slavery came from. They are found in Ancient Greece and some allege that the Gorgon whose head was supposedly covered with snakes was actually a woman with corn rows and plaits. They were the hairstyle of heroes and gods.

Trisher it happened long before the Victorians,we had tartan banned ,bagpipes banned the speaking of Gaelic banned the English government and it IS English government even now witha majority of MP's being english tried to wipe our culture from the face of the earth. It was an ongoing project with children being told to speak "proper english" instead of the Scots dialects that were natural to them .Even now people are treated as common or stupid if they speak broad scots . Thankfully if you try to ban something it just makes people work harder to keep it alive .Scottish culture is alive and well and thriving across world.

Cornrows became connected with slavery because they were used as a means of communication. Maps of escape routes away from plantations were braided into hair. Cornrows were also used by slaves as a means of keeping their culture alive, when almost everything else about their identity had been stripped from them.

When we lived in W Africa, I don’t think I ever saw a woman with her hair as nature intended. Their hair was always so intricately styled, often in one of the many roadside stalls that lined the streets.

SueDonim Wed 02-Sep-20 14:11:22 that is really interesting, had no idea. That must mean they are quite the opposite of oppression and anyone wearing them is anti-slavery.

Sandelf
The same applies to the Brummie accent - and Black Country (not the same!) - you won't get to "the top" with a Midlands accent.

Ye me too, also found your post really interesting SueDonim, and as I understand it many African traditional hairstyles, such as the one Adele wore recently, are centuries old, they look timeless. Can't imagine anyone wanting to adopt the hairstyles or wigs for that matter from western culture from times gone by, well a 1920s bob maybe, but to go back further to powdered wigs of the 18th century, or before that with heaven knows what crawling about on heads . Even the 19th century threw us some pretty horrible hairstyles.

The history of hair style in Nigeria is fascinating. Each tribe has their own style for identity and then there are styles to denote certain stages in life eg bridal or mourning. It’s very complex and interesting.

Nonnie I don’t see it like that . Those particular patterns were developed because the wearers were oppressed, so it’s a sign of oppression not freedom.

The novel Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie talks of the politics of African hair.
www.theguardian.com/books/2013/apr/15/americanah-chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-review

Far from society becoming more inclusive we seem to be being pushed into pigeonholes, whether it be race, sexuality, age, whatever. Segregation is alive and well and being promoted by extremists on every side, while those of us in the middle trying to tiptoe through the minefield are pretty much despised.

Does anybody remember Dudley Moore's film 10? This was first shown in 1979 and his blonde co-star Bo Derek had corn rakes. Plenty of images on line. Other models have worn them in the intervening years.

Yes I remember 10, I remember Bo Derek's hairstyle, but most of all I remember Dudley Moore delicately trying to find his way forward on excruciatingly hot sand. Ever since, whenever my feet were lucky enough to touch hot sand I always felt I was having a Dudley Moore "10" moment.

Oh and Ravel's "Bolero" I remember that as well from the film.

Humankind would still be living in the primeval swamp and hunter gathering were it not for cultural appropriation in its many kinds, whether it was copying the axes of the next door tribe because they seem to be easier to use, to scientists from different countries and different cultural backgrounds getting together to share their ideas and approaches to treating COVID and developing a vaccine for it.

When Isaac Newton made his most famous statement: “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants”. What was that but a cry for cultural appropriation? And look where it took him and where, in there turn scientists of all nations appropriated his ideas and went forward.

Call it what you will, what we are talking about is cultures sharing between eacch other and building on each other's knowledge. I can see nothing wrong with it.

What you’re speaking of is cultural exchange, Monica. That’s different from cultural appropriation. It’s not okay when you take ideas from oppressed peoples, and especially not when you claim it for yourself without acknowledgment of its origins.

We don’t allow appropriation in other areas of life, we have anti-plagiarism laws and the systems of patents and copyright.

Here’s an article on the difference, which I posted earlier. everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/cultural-appropriation-wrong/

Most examples given by posters are cultural appreciation, which is quite different to cultural appropriation.

Nothing wrong with cultural appreciation though!

SueDonim

What you’re speaking of is cultural exchange, Monica. That’s different from cultural appropriation. It’s not okay when you take ideas from oppressed peoples, and especially not when you claim it for yourself without acknowledgment of its origins.

We don’t allow appropriation in other areas of life, we have anti-plagiarism laws and the systems of patents and copyright.

Here’s an article on the difference, which I posted earlier. everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/cultural-appropriation-wrong/

Good post.

I can’t see anything wrong with it with it either M0nica but the opportunities for people to be offended have spread to cover virtually anything you can shake a stick at.

Those who don’t feel there’s anything wrong with taking other people’s culture, do you think it’s okay to dress up in black face? Would you wear an outfit akin to that worn by prisoners in concentration camps? How about wearing a Native American sacred feather headdress?

Sue it is exactly the same thing. Exchange is the swapping of gifts, with which you do little with once you have got them. Progress is the ability to see what others are doing, see it is better and then add to it to make it even better still before passing it back. Cultural sharing, which is what appropriation is, has been going on since the dawn of time and everyone in the world has benefitted. Whether it is the development of drugs, mobile phones, styles of dress and adornment or cuisine.

It is very rarely that one nation adapts something from another nation and does not acknowledge it, usually that is impossible . As for your comments on plagiarism etc. All I need to do is read someone elses ideas and reword them and they are not protected, a patentee cannot stop you using his patent as a basis for improvements, which means with those improvements the original patentee has few rights, the same with copyright, all these protections merely freeze an item in one type, once someone changes it the protection has gone. This is what has been happening since year Zero and is why we live the comfortable easy lives we do today.

Well. I am about to go up to bed and I will sleep in my pyjamas, or must I cast them aside and put on a night dress because I am cultural appropriating an Indian garment with an Indian name?

Sue I am back again. There could be a time and place where all those examples you quote could be completely appropriate. As with everything in life we make judgements about what is appropriate in any situation and what is not.

Far more people wear the Christian cross as an ornament or even as an act of Blasphemy as wear Indian headresses of the type you mention. I am listening hard but I hear no cries of cultural appropriation over the use of the crucifix by those who do not profess christianity.

All the people objecting to cultural appropriation are usually wearing (American) jeans, trainers, and baseball caps. they have apropriated to be turned into a very distinctive street culture that is entirely their own - I am sure most chomp into burgers washed down by Coca Cola, or an imitation of it.

The whole idea of cultural appropriation is a bonkers idea developed by people who haven't properly thought it through and supported by the trendy intellectuals that exist in every generation and think it makes them special if they tag along with the most extreme ideas in society. One day they will grow up and becoming dull and boring. It is their fate.

lemongrove

I can’t see anything wrong with it with it either M0nica but the opportunities for people to be offended have spread to cover virtually anything you can shake a stick at.

Yet here, so many have chosen to be offended that POC don’t want white people to use something of theirs ie hairstyles.

The only “professionally offended people” I see are those told that they are doing insensitive things.

Appropriation and sharing are not the same thing at all!

Appropriation is “taking”.