Could you imagine Mrs Thatcher breaking the law?

I do honestly wonder why folks who have an issue with English history choose to live here. Winston Churchill was an imperfect human, and, no doubt like the rest of us, made mistakes. As a wartime leader, however, for many people he is and always will be an inspirational leader and a hero. Furthermore, and as such, had he been leading this country through the epidemic emergency, there is no doubt in my mind, you could not have a better man for the job.

Like her or loath her Mrs Thatcher and Brexit, Britain would not have been in the EU since it was John Major who signed Maastricht that she refused to do. She believed in Britain and understood what loyalty to country meant. Not the “Johnny Come Lately” brigade who think that a piddling contribution entitles them to re-write English/British history.

Extract from an article in The Guardian:
'It is clear that Johnson and his most important confreres, Dominic Cummings and Michael Gove, never really saw this as anything other than a clever dodge, a tactical retreat. On his blog in March 2019, when May was in power, Cummings addressed “dear Vote Leave activists”: “don’t worry about the so-called ‘permanent’ commitments this historically abysmal Cabinet are trying to make on our behalf. They are not ‘permanent’ and a serious government — one not cowed by officials and their bullshit ‘legal advice’ with which they have herded ministers like sheep — will dispense with these commitments.”'
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/10/boris-johnson-oven-ready-brexit-cummings-withdrawal-agreement
Makes you ask just who is running the country and what are their objectives??

It is very sinister. You don'y have to be a conspiracy theorist to see that this country has for the last five years been steered in the wrong direction by malignant forces - foreign powers, billionaires and tax exiles who look forward to the opportunities for the vultures of disaster capitalism, which would be the inevitable result of a no deal brexit.

Johnson has become a person of whom I can no longer listen without total total disbelief and cynicism. Agreed. I wouldn't believe him if he stood up and told us all it was September. Once a liar, always a liar. After you have lied to your partner, children, employer, the anonymous electorate are easy.

There was an interesting post on FB this morning:

If I was Barnier, I would promise GB everything they want, free trade, easy access, full membership rights without responsibilities, then on 31st December, I would renege on it..
I wonder what all those of you who are unbelievably, able to somehow excuse this disgraceful and frankly disgusting disregard for international law would feel about that?

We would have known exactly what we were supposed to be doing re COVID with Mrs T as well.
There would have been no been devolution. No mixed messages. We would have been told!
What a mess we are in.

Mess there too, in my post
Excess been

The next 4 weeks are going to be pretty febrile. We are ALL just spectators watching from the sidelines. Nothing we can do but watch it play out as it will.

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

This

MayBee70

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

Well, occasionally we have a referendum too.

Yes must have meant " do what you like".

sparklingsilver28

I do honestly wonder why folks who have an issue with English history choose to live here. Winston Churchill was an imperfect human, and, no doubt like the rest of us, made mistakes. As a wartime leader, however, for many people he is and always will be an inspirational leader and a hero. Furthermore, and as such, had he been leading this country through the epidemic emergency, there is no doubt in my mind, you could not have a better man for the job.

Like her or loath her Mrs Thatcher and Brexit, Britain would not have been in the EU since it was John Major who signed Maastricht that she refused to do. She believed in Britain and understood what loyalty to country meant. Not the “Johnny Come Lately” brigade who think that a piddling contribution entitles them to re-write English/British history.

I don't really understand your post. Mrs Thatcher was in favour of the EU.

Who's rewriting English history?

Why should somebody choose to live elsewhere just because they don't think Churchill was a hero? That doesn't make sense.

Callistemon

MayBee70

We live in a democracy not a dictatorship (yet). Why do we not have a say in what is happening to the country we live in. Or should we only be allowed to do so once every five years when there’s an election?

Well, occasionally we have a referendum too.

Yes must have meant " do what you like".

Mrs T wouldn't have agreed to a referendum either.

Margaret Thatcher did say she could never have signed the Maastricht Treaty.
Gordon Brown was reluctant to sign the Lisbon Treaty. He did not sign it at the ceremony and left it up to David Miliband to sign, signing it later without ceremony.
Winston Churchill was in favour of a United Europe.

We'll never know, but I think Mrs T would have forced amendments to the Maastricht Treaty and then signed it. Who knows?

Lord Norman Lamont (that well known leftie remoaner) said: "I think the government will have to think again. I don't think this will get through the Lords, in its present form... It is impossible to defend. They'll have to think again."

I think she was more than happy with European co-operation without too much bureaucracy which, I believe, many voters may have wanted, but the 2016 referendum gave no such options.

I think it was Mr Barnier himself who said, 'Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'. Trying to get out of the grasping and greedy clutches of the EU is worse than trying to leave the Mafia. They are incapable of understanding that we are now an independent country and can and will make our own decisions. Hopefully, more countries will vote to leave soon- France could be one if Marine Le Pen gets in

Good grief. Johnson, Trump and Marine le Pen all in power. Are you trying to give me nightmares?

paddyanne

Churchill was a hated man in Scotland ,he brought tanks in adn locked Scottish soldiers in their barracks so they wouldn't support their friends and families .Evil old B .My granny had double the issues with him because of his treatment of Ireland and the Irish .

Oh, dear, paddyanne. Don't be taken in by all the untruths propagated by Socialist and SNP myth-makers down the years about the so-called "Battle of George Square" in 1919. First of all, Churchill had nothing to do with the military deployment: having read the Riot Act to the strikers, the Sheriff of Lanarkshire requested military aid to the civil powers, which the War Cabinet (of which Churchill was not a member) approved. In fact, the minutes of the relevant meeting record that Churchill did not agree with the deployment at that time. Second, the troops were not exclusively English; the vast majority were actually from Scottish Regiments, including the Seaforths, Gordons, A&S Highlanders and Royal Scots. And the bit about locking Scottish soldiers of the HLI in their barracks at Maryhill is a complete fantasy. It didn't happen. The HLI were actually stationed near Edinburgh at the time.. And, finally, please don't spread gross generalisations about Churchill being a "hated man in Scotland". He may have been so on Red Clydeside, but I seem to recall he was pretty popular in the Highlands when I was growing up.

quizqueen

I think it was Mr Barnier himself who said, 'Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'. Trying to get out of the grasping and greedy clutches of the EU is worse than trying to leave the Mafia. They are incapable of understanding that we are now an independent country and can and will make our own decisions. Hopefully, more countries will vote to leave soon- France could be one if Marine Le Pen gets in

Why do you care about the future of France? France is a sovereign country and nothing to do with you, unless you want a Europe run by fascists.

“ unless you want a Europe run by fascists.”. Very probably !

growstuff

sparklingsilver28

I do honestly wonder why folks who have an issue with English history choose to live here. Winston Churchill was an imperfect human, and, no doubt like the rest of us, made mistakes. As a wartime leader, however, for many people he is and always will be an inspirational leader and a hero. Furthermore, and as such, had he been leading this country through the epidemic emergency, there is no doubt in my mind, you could not have a better man for the job.

Like her or loath her Mrs Thatcher and Brexit, Britain would not have been in the EU since it was John Major who signed Maastricht that she refused to do. She believed in Britain and understood what loyalty to country meant. Not the “Johnny Come Lately” brigade who think that a piddling contribution entitles them to re-write English/British history.

I don't really understand your post. Mrs Thatcher was in favour of the EU.

Who's rewriting English history?

Why should somebody choose to live elsewhere just because they don't think Churchill was a hero? That doesn't make sense.

I thought it was me. Thank goodness someone else thinks the same..

I simply couldn’t make sense of the argument even after two or three reads.

quizqueen

I think it was Mr Barnier himself who said, 'Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'. Trying to get out of the grasping and greedy clutches of the EU is worse than trying to leave the Mafia. They are incapable of understanding that we are now an independent country and can and will make our own decisions. Hopefully, more countries will vote to leave soon- France could be one if Marine Le Pen gets in

Ah yes the fascists. Hitler still has a few supports.

This treaty break is not going down well is it?

The rest of the world think we are insane, America, both republicans and democrats have warned us that there will no no trade deals. Full stop.

The EU is threatening financial and trade sanctions. I can see that us calling the EUs bluff will simply end in Barnier being told by the various sovereign nations that make up the EU to walk away at the end of the month.

Meanwhile we have cringeworthy little Michael Gove coming out to importantly make a statement about how brave and strong he is.

Shall we have another thread about the treat negotiations? Otherwise we will end up conflating that important topic with this one about Maggie Thatcher.
?

*treaty, natch