Patel would have us return to the Nineteenth Century

Firecracker is perfectly able to speak for herself Ellenv so don't try and stir the pot. I agree with most on here, especially jane10, this is indeed not a simple matter and the implications for the countries which are undergoing what is in essence a brain drain of talent is very serious, Syria and Afghanistan need their doctors, teachers, skilled people if they are ever to get out of their terrible situation. I can't imagine how it must feel as someone who walks away from the debris of their life, packs up their family, undergoes a horrific journey at the hand of exploitative traffickers, then arrives here to be accused of doing it all for £35 a week.

I visited an historic prison in Berrima NSW and came out of there in tears. Models were used to re=enact the courtroom scenes and a mother was in court for stealing bread to feed her family. Sentencing was so severe it would never happen in this country to the most heinous of criminals.

The sounds and smells were heartbreaking ( cleverly and realistically done to depict the cruelty of our own citizens )

Nobody should ever be imprisoned for the petty stealing of food products !!

GillT57, I'm not stirring any pot if you did but realise, more of a warning to Firecracker that if she happens to say something different which you and others don't like, you might just press the report button as has happened with myself in the past.

It's never worth discussing anything with those who " know it all " and lose their patience at the drop of a hat.

Ellenv, what are you talking about? I have not lost patience, nor do I know it all, I just disagreed with an opinion. This is a discussion forum. For the record, I have never reported anyone for having a different opinion, what a strange thing to say. Now, to get back to the point of this discussion; I am saddened that those people in government such as P Patel, D Raab who are from families who had to flee repression are now determined to remove that from others. I am even more saddened than some of the electorate cheer them on.

My argument is that to come here, be it Patel Raab and others, they have to cross many other countries----Why this one ??

Patel has done no favours to one of her constituents in Essex by ignoring his pleas of innocence while having so far been imprisoned for 35 years. 3 court orders for withheld evidence has been totally ignored. She won't support this man in any way and it disgusts me.
She's got a ruddy cheek throwing her weight around over something she knows nothing about and probably wasn't even in this country when the crime took place.

53EllanVannin

My argument is that to come here, be it Patel Raab and others, they have to cross many other countries----Why this one ??

Thank you EllanVannin but I am used to the bigots. Yes why indeed are they coming here after crossing numerous countries.

Governments come and go. A constant stream of the brightest and best from unfortunate countries can only lead in the long run, by which I mean decades if not centuries, to severely entrenched inequalities between have and have not countries.
This government could go in a few years or Priti Patel could see the light!? New policies re helping good people back home to help develop their own countries is really the only way ahead. A long term risk of not doing that could be such overpopulation in Europe that the developed countries sink into the same poor state as those of the immigrants. Note- this is taking a very long view of what could happen if the gates to UK remain open indefinitely.

GillT57
I hope you had the same sympathies for some of the poorest countries in Europe when the borders came down.
They too lost some of the best and brightest.

I did indeed MerylS, and I am also disturbed by the plundering of qualified medical staff from countries who probably need them, just because we have failed to invest in training our own.

It's not set in concrete though. We can train and retain more medics as well as train up some to return to their home countries. On the positive side many people from EU countries who came here have been terrific assets. They weren't all organised Romanian beggars ( a great embarrassment to other hard working Romanians).
On a personal level I'm lucky enough to know many Polish people who are much appreciated round here.
My previous postings were not in relation to EU countries but Middle Eastern and African countries.

Today 11:51 Ashcombe

Well said, MaizieD and Alegrias!

And Ashcombe ?

What ever did the world do to deserve such evil.

Apparently Patel has considered plans to build facilities in Moldova, Morocco and Papua New Guinea.

It is intended that the hostile environment will be beefed up in 2021.

My goodness we are becoming an unpleasant nationalistic nation.

On a lighter note, someone described Patel as the kind of person who would unplug your life support to charge her mobile phone

Another, possibly more accurate, description was " a unique combination of visciousness and stupidity"

I didn't think anyone was proposing to bring back those Victorian prison hulks of Dickens' time. Or that the would be immigrants should be treated like Magwitch.

As I understand it, at present, refugees coming over in dinghies are spread around the country waiting for their claims to be processed. They might be in hostels of some sort and sometimes in hotels.

Wouldn't it be better to keep everyone more or less together in reasonable comfort (these ships aren't cargo vessels, are they?)

I know, tin hat....

We are so lucky to live in this country, we are not at war, our children are not dying of malnutrition. It is just an accident of birth we live in a wealthy country, we did not choose our circumstances. It is sad that we cannot show more compassion than Ms Patel, and this government seem capable of?

As to why are they coming here, well strange as it may seem given people in government like Patel we used to have a reputation for being welcoming, fair and accommodating to those fleeing persecution. Some of them have family here. Many of them speak English.
The countries closest to the conflict have huge refugee camps. Some of the countries they pass through have big right wing extremist movements.
The numbers coming here are relatively small compared with the huge amounts being accommodated in other countries. The least we could do would be to house them safely, process them quickly and allow them to begin to rebuild their lives.

I had an ancestor who was deported to Australia for poaching a rabbit to feed his 7 children. It was an incredibly sad story. He died in Sydney at quite an elderly age and never married
That is sad. Did any of his family follow him out there, Whitewave
I've met people who are descended from First Fleeters and Second Fleeters and they are very proud of their ancestry these days.

The people who manage to get themselves here are the ones with the energy and determination we can use to build a better country.

That's the sad thing, though, Alegrias. Their countries may need them to rebuild, make a better future one day for those who remain.
We actively recruit medical staff from countries such as India who lose their qualified, experienced people. Is that ethical?

The countries closest to the conflict have huge refugee camps

Turkey is overwhelmed, as is Greece which is in the EU.

A letter written to Priti Patel

Yesterday I wrote to the Home Secretary to express my grave concerns about the inhumane approach towards desperate refugees adopted by the Government. The text of the letter can be found below:
Dear Rt Hon Priti Patel,
I write because of my concerns about the inhumane approach towards desperate refugees adopted by your government.
Images of adults and children in small and unsafe boats crossing the channel, alongside the more horrific images of those left uncared for as a result of unsuccessful crossings, and indeed tragedies such as that in the Moria refugee centre, say far more than words.
Earlier this year, the Prime Minister said in parliament: “We will make sure that nobody in this country, let alone asylum seekers, is ill-treated”. Yet there remains a significant discrepancy between these words and the measures being taken by the government.
It recently came to light that hundreds of asylum seekers are being housed in Tenby army barracks; this is deeply concerning, and simply wrong. It has also been revealed this week that the Government has been exploring using offshore prison ships to detain and transport those seeking aslyum, and also looking at the possibility of sending asylum seekers to Moldova, Morocco and Papua New Guinea, alongside suggestions that detention centres could be constructed on the south Atlantic islands of Ascension and St Helena.
Political point scoring by talking of island detention centres is nothing more than an extension of the hostile environment created by your predecessor. The Windrush Generation will attest to this.
Many British people started out as refugees and have made enormous contributions to our communities and to society. Getting through the Corona crisis has only been possible by superhuman efforts, including by refugee workers and their families.
Asylum seekers are human beings who have a right to be treated with dignity and respect. It is unforgivable that in modern day Britain there is such a shortfall in practical and urgent solutions to this ongoing crisis.
The government’s current approach is neither humane nor fair, and yet humanity and fairness are what is required. There are huge concerns about the location of vulnerable refugees in Greece and other parts of Europe. We should be playing our part in supporting them.
History shows us that refugees are the victims of human rights abuse, war and environmental disasters. We surely all have a duty to support the victims, rather than blaming and punishing them for events not of their making.
I would welcome receiving some positive news from you in relation to the above.

Yours sincerely,

The Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP

Thanks Grany I wonder if she will answer him.

Her latest move, I see on twitter this morning as reported in The Times, is to propose a law:

Migrants who board boats to cross the Channel or come to Britain via other illegal routes will be routinely denied asylum under new laws to be unveiled today

Response of a specialist in immigration law:

Dan Sohege

Important to remember ahead of Priti Patel's speech later that it is enshrined in Refugee Convention that asylum seekers cannot be penalised for their manner of entry into a state. To remove people based on how they arrive would be a fundamental violation of international law.

Mind you, who cares about international law? Our government certainly doesn't.

I see that people are still asking why the refugees are not remaining in France - the camps which they set up mainly outside Calais and Dunkirk are now routinely destroyed by the French police. Their belongings are routinely destroyed and burnt etc, the people are also transported hours away. This week one such of these people was dumped in the middle of nowhere and subsequently discovered he was 8 miles from the nearest train station which was Toulouse - pretty far south from Calais. He walked to the station and then eventually walked back to Calais.
This is happening on a very regular basis and the feeding of these people by volunteers is also disrupted. We are starting to get much colder weather now and these people have had their shelter destroyed and they literally have only the clothes they are wearing,
I have no idea why these actions are being taken on people who are clearly wanting to get to U.K.- for most other European countries they can and do simply walk. These cleansing operations have increased greatly in more recent times and since the U.K. Govt has become more aggressive to these poor people.
It seems that most of these people - yes - young men because they hope to be able to work and send help back to their families, are educated and many qualified such as doctors and nurses who want to work. They are not scrounges who hope to live on benefits and have free housing. I am sure they would love to have a few weeks of respite and be fed and clothed to give them a chance to recover from some of the trauma they have witnessed and gone through but then to be absorbed into the society and in many cases reunited with their family.
Where has the act being humane and helping these people disappeared to? Acts of kindness to people in great distress is rarely forgotten by the recipients and will often be repaid in some way in future years. Many people will want to return to their homeland when the danger of being killed has gone and they will be there to help restore and rebuild communities.
The Govt seem quite happy with sending people who have been in U.K. for a generation back to their homeland’ - such as the Windrush people and ones from Kenya etc. Mrs Patel needs to be careful or one day a new law she brings in May just involve her family!