The end of British farming?

MerylStreep

The eu can't be that bothered about US meat because in November 2019 the parliament voted 457-140 ( 71 abstentions) to allow the US to import more beef into the eu market.

Hormone free beef only and limited amount.

Any food imported to the EU has to meet its required standards.

This is in order to protect public health and of course its farmers.

We can vote with our purses.

I will buy all my meat directly from a British farmer.

Yes, that is a choice for those of us who can afford to do so. As usual, it is the poorest in Society who will have NO choice. And of course no more meals out or take aways, as restaurants will be prevented from mentions of provenance.

Why did people vote for Brexit?
I think we've been through this before but it was the brilliant but deluded slogan, attributed to Dominic Cummings, which tipped the balance
Take Back Control
It made people think they had lost something and a cross at the ballot box could make it all better.
So many gullible souls.

@Riverwalk I was responding to MerylStreep

Not everyone has the income to buy directly from local farmers, or the time to do so when working full time. O think we will end up with 'gentlemen farmers' who will provide ethically raised and fed meats for those who can afford it and the rest of the farmers, the majority, who earn a hard living will go to the well. I had to reign in a sharp and vicious reply to a local farmer I met at a friend's NYE party, just after the Brexit vote. He had voted Brexit, was delighted with himself, I asked him what he grew, he told me he rented fields to a few smaller farmers, but his main income was car boot sales as he couldn't be bothered with the regulations involved in growing crops. Too much interference by 'do-gooders' not permitting use of herbicides and pesticides.

Everything from indoor loos to central heating started by only wealthy people being to afford it and as it became more popular technical development and economies of scale brought prices down and made it possible for almost anyone to afford it.

It is the same with food. If all those who can afford higher welfare meat bought it, even if it meant eating a bit less and also bought British quality fruit and veg in season, then more farmers would start to grow these crops and prices would come down and more people would be able to afford it.

but the fact remains, MOnica that we are not able to be self sufficient in food. We couldn't do it, despite massive efforts, during WW2 with a population of 45 billion. Population is now some 66billion. Not a cat in hell's chance

No, we cannot be self sufficient, but if enough customers are demanding that certain types of food reach certain standards, then supermarkets and other stores will have to look to imports from countries that do have welfare standards that meet our approval. Meat will be imported from the EC rather than the USA.

What is the EC, MOnica?

European Community? What would be the problem with importing from the EU?

MOnica There's a contradiction in what you've written. The price of food would only reduce if there were technical development and and economies of scale. The Americans have achieved both, which is how they can produce food cheaply and on a massive scale. We would have to to try and do the same, which would lead to a reduction in quality and, in the case of meat, to a reduction in welfare. Quality food cannot be produced on an industrial scale.

I'm so glad that I'm vegan. Why not give it a try? All meat production is cruel anyway - some more cruel, that's all. I've never felt so fit and well!

People should, at least, consider being vegetarian. We can all be careful to check where our food comes from, how it's produced, processed and packed, how far it is shipped etc.

It's about time that we considered the environment - and the future for our grandchildren. Do they have one?

Hetty I eat very little meat, which I buy from a local supplier. I'm diabetic and would find it extremely difficult to be vegan, as my diet is low carb. Vegetables and fruit are essentially carbs and I limit how much fruit I eat anyway. Meat and dairy products are the most efficient source of protein. I eat almost no bread, pasta, rice or anything made with flour, so it wouldn't leave me with very much.

In any case, the UK can't grow enough plant-based foods to feed the population.

U.K. can’t produce enough of any food to feed it’s population, but plant based agriculture is far less wasteful in terms of land, water use, emissions etc. However, that’s a whole different discussion. Anyone seen the clip of Gove saying twice on Countryfile that the U.K. would definitely not accept lower standards and this would be protected in law, then he votes against protecting standards . Disgusting hypocrite.

growstuff There is plenty of evidence that it is posible to feed the world sustainably and well without flogging the earth to death and not treating animals with respect and dignity and ensuring they have decent lives.

Nor can a reduction in food standards be justified by the need to feed a growing world population. A report published recently showed that the world is close to peak population. Almost all deveoped and developing countries have birth rates just on or below the rate needed to keep their population stable and not growing and world food production is already sufficient to meet all nutritional needs. Poverty and hunger are caused by political and economic problems not by lack of sufficient food being produced.

This country cannot, and never has been able to be self sufficient in food, even in WW2 with rationing and lower expectations of what we want to find in the shops, so anyone peddling that nonsense needs to do their research. I too am vegetarian, so the quality of meat imported or locally reared is not an issue. What is an issue though is the appalling standards of animal husbandry in USA, the drugs used are because of the appalling conditions that many of these animals are raised in. Saying it is not my problem is like saying I don't care that the local primary school has a leaky roof because I don't have children there. Very, very few people will be able to shop for meat at their local butcher, the scale of production is such that it is just not feasible. This is apart from the fact that the government have lied again......

When can we rejoin the EU? Do you think we will?

Rejoin the EU, they wouldn’t have us as full members, that’s not going to happen

What they would like is to have us as EFTA members with rules everyone understands. At present that’s not going to happen, in the future who knows.

M0nica

growstuff There is plenty of evidence that it is posible to feed the world sustainably and well without flogging the earth to death and not treating animals with respect and dignity and ensuring they have decent lives.

Nor can a reduction in food standards be justified by the need to feed a growing world population. A report published recently showed that the world is close to peak population. Almost all deveoped and developing countries have birth rates just on or below the rate needed to keep their population stable and not growing and world food production is already sufficient to meet all nutritional needs. Poverty and hunger are caused by political and economic problems not by lack of sufficient food being produced.

I'd be interested in seeing the evidence MOnica because it's contrary to what I've read.

PS. I agree that feeding the world has as much to do with economic and political problems as lack of production, but we were talking specifically of the the UK.

Davidhs

Rejoin the EU, they wouldn’t have us as full members, that’s not going to happen

What they would like is to have us as EFTA members with rules everyone understands. At present that’s not going to happen, in the future who knows.

I agree.

In the short and medium term, the UK is going to experience a rise in food prices and/or a reduction of quality from US imports. The poorest won't be able to afford the better quality food.

Several predictions estimate the Global population will stabilize by 2200 at 13 billion, a 50% increase from today.
This is partly through lower birth rate, offset by higher longevity mainly in developing countries.

The problem we face is that those in poor countries are going to consume more resources, all the lifestyle we have they want.

The more I read about US and Australian farming and food, the more worried I am. Liz Truss is too dismissive of the very real concerns held by many people and wants to make deals at any cost. I despair of this government, too many unforeseen and unintended consequences in too many areas.